Operation Broken Home V Rule Changes

[TheJP 3,301]

 

The following will Rules will be implemented at Operation Broken Home V.  The ruleset will not reflect these changes until after OP ESR-19 (4)

 

Vehicles:

-After 1st Rocket hit, vehicle is disabled, and has a 5 minute burn out time, after 5 mins, everyone in it is dead.

-After 2nd Rocket hit, vehicle is destroyed, and everyone inside is dead.

-There are no more transport vehicles, and gun trucks.  Only one type of vehicle, based on a current gun truck ruleset.  The different vehicle types will no longer exist. 

-All windows must be down, including drivers window.

-Driver must wear full face protection.  (Goggles and lower mask are ok)

-No treating of wounded players inside vehicles.

-Ammo restricted to twice the amount of dismounted SSW class (this may change from event to event)

 

Non Vehicles:

-Limit rifleman, DMR, and Sniper to 7 magazines.

-Limit SSW to 3000 rounds loaded in magazines.

-No Ammo will be carried in the field.  Faction Supply personal will coordinate re-supply.  Each Platoon will have a re-supply box that the Platoon fills with their own ammo, and is delivered to Squads/Platoons in the field.

 

CAMO:

Project Honor is no longer an AMS allowed patterned.

 

 

I love the debate, keep it going!!!

 

Keep in mind we are always trying to evolve and simplify the rules. We want to create the "milsim" experience while trying to minimize the hurry up and wait / steep learning curve factors for newer/inexperienced players.

 

That being said AMS events have evolved over the years to help foster tactics / maneuvering at both the 100 foot (Squad) and 10,000 foot (Company) views. This is a reward for players that come prepared, have their shit together and have a grasp of the battle space.

 

We have accomplished much of this with ammo restrictions, squad roles, medic / drag rules, semi / FA rules, etc...

 

Do we get it right all the time? F**K  no... but in our opinion is that it's better trying to grow and evolve than just being happy with the status quo (aka doing nothing).

 

I understand your guys concerns and reservations regrading some of these rule changes and nothing is ever SET IN STONE. We try something, it doesn't work -- toss it out and try something else.

 

I personally have no issues with the new ammo restrictions. I typically operate with 7 + 1 -- however in a OBH type setting depending on my role I'd like to operate with 12 + 1.

 

I also understand you concern about re-supply and personal property, we are working on solutions and contingencies. All these rule changes will be POC'd at ESR by certain staff and players to validate prior to OBH.

 

We want you guys to have the best experience as possible, but that does not always mean you're having fun and kicking ass ever second, of every minute, of every hour...

 

Running out of ammo is a serious tactical issues and a very serious problem.

 

Do you shoot your way out of this ambush and try to break it? Do we have ammo for that? What if we are counter attacked? Should we just suppress and fall back?

 

How far are we from the company supply lines? Do we have comms with our company command? DO we have enough beer and ammo to be combat effective in the eyes of our platoon or company commander?

 

These are all tactical questions that leadership from CO to SQDL need to always be evaluating.

 

 

TL;DR 

 

We are always trying to evolve to make your experiences more challenging and thus more rewarding. Nothing is set in stone, rules are always adaptable and may change from event to event / faction to faction. Alex is giving you all a HEADS up so you can be prepared and plan accordingly.

 

Please keep the discussion going (be civil)  we'd love you get everyone's feedback on these changes.

 

Regards,

 

JP

[MickeyD 2]

Just voicing my opinion, take it for what it is. The new ammo limits are interesting and will surely change gameplay. I like the idea of people being more conservative with their ammo (maybe it will discourage those who empty half a magazine in the FOB before the game even starts). Though pairing this new rule with one that makes reloading magazines a more tentative process will surely punish some players, by making them lose out on game time while they search for their platoon's crate. My other concern is shared by others on this thread, pertaining to (improper) distribution of personal ammo. If the AMS staff has a method to keep players from delving into other players ammo, then they should fill us in to quell our worries. I guess what I'm getting at is that these new rules rely greatly on their execution, and I have faith that the AMS staff is more than capable of making it happen. Just a bit worried that these concepts are being tested at the flagship AMS game, rather than a smaller event first.

[TheJP 3,301]

MD,

 

Appreciate the feedback bro.

 

JP

[zconflictz 9]

 

 

I personally have no issues with the new ammo restrictions. I typically operate with 7 + 1 -- however in a OBH type setting depending on my role I'd like to operate with 12 + 1.

 

 

With that being said, Maybe since broken home is a bigger event we could go for a higher mag count. Something like a mag count based on players, size of field, amount of SSW and snipers etc. I have faith that AMS will get this figured out before Broken Home

[TheJP 3,301]

With that being said, Maybe since broken home is a bigger event we could go for a higher mag count. Something like a mag count based on players, size of field, amount of SSW and snipers etc. I have faith that AMS will get this figured out before Broken Home

 

I'll let you know after ESR, but better safe than sorry... get you kit ready for 7 + 1.

[genogary 10]

I was going to say something negative about the rules, but then realize I only run out to the field with 7 mags lmao! But yeah not too fond of it but hey we'll see. Lol kinda funny because this also means that the Krytac LMG users can't fill the box mag up to 5K, instead 3K. I wonder how many will follow the rules on LMGs. The ammo boxes seem interesting given the large volume for Broken Home. I mean I don't trust many with my stuff especially the amount of people at Broken Home. I usually just carry my stuff in my backpack and then reload at the FOB. But hey I'm always able to adapted.   

[MumbleKing 7]

What sucks about the mag limit is someone's using a gbb would have around 280 bullets over 7 mags. While someone with an aeg is going to have 980 over the same amount.

[Chase 30]

Everyone on here complaining about their 90 or 120rnd mid caps. PTS ERG Mags (which are what I run) are 30 or 60 max.

 

As part of a QRF which relies heavily on our gun trucks, I will give this new ruleset a chance. I don't necessarily agree with everything being changed, but I'll try it out. Hopefully it will all go smoothly.

[Ron Mexico 380]

You kids have gotten soft lol, I guess I offended to many people lol.
 

If AMS does it the way it has been done before then they will have each platoon provide their own storage box and you will provide your own bb's just like you do now. As long as you have a lock on your box then you won't need to worry about the items walking off and it will be very notice-able if someone is walking off with a huge box/container full of bb's.

 

Like JP said, they need to keep trying ideas or the game becomes stagnant, there is a reason everyone keeps following AMS and it is probably due to the fact that we some how enjoy the twist and turns that we run into with the rule sets.

[Guest Specs]

Glad to hear that there's testing being done at ESR. I think that's the perfect event and AO to do some beta testing. I've always loved the idea of limited ammunition for players. Seems like a logical next step to the semi-auto limitations that were implemented last year. 

 

As others mentioned, I've got faith in AMS staff to get things worked out. 

[Longsword 74]

Looking through the feedback, I can definitely see positives and negatives. Here's my personal input on the matter: (Get ready for a TL;DR)

PROS

1) Immersion. I like the fact that, unlike Call of Duty (video game comparison... please don't flay me), we will need to be doubly sure of our ammo count. It'll make decisions in a firefight that much more meaningful. Sometimes it's easy to feel like you're playing a Call of Duty campaign (Yeah, I'm actually one of those people who play the game for the campaigns) and just never being concerned about ammo. To me, I think the mag restrictions will be great for the most part, much like the semi-auto rule for riflemen. I'll address my qualms in the cons section.

2) The changes to the vehicle ruleset are great! No complaints here. Also, I assume by no gun trucks they mean no pickups with a machinegun mounted on it? I am personally okay with that as it did feel a little dorky at times to see a bright red Chevy Silverado pull up with just an m60 on top. But that's just my personal taste.

3) I think it'll just promote more engaging gameplay. We are "Milsim" after all. Though I do like that fact that we offer a great balance. Enough so that newbies can plunge right in and have fun (I was one of those people!) but then give enough tactics and military-esque traits so that the more veteran players can keep having fun. There are other companies which offer a more "hardcore" experience and for me personally AMS has struck the perfect balance. And as an added bonus, I think along with forcing more methodical gameplay, we can avoid the fatigue that I know is setting in for some with these OPs and that is "Force on Force", meaning at times it feels like we ultimately just throw our armies at each other and duke it out. MAJOR props to AMS for the what looks like big gameplay changes coming down the pipeline to freshen things up and give us what feels like actual battlefield objectives. 

 

CONS:

1) I can't say I'm totally sold on the ammo resupply issue. I'm all for beta testing it (stealing your phrasing, Specs ) at ESR but I do know this has been tried by many other promoters and it only causes issues. A fascinating idea in theory, don't get me wrong! But we all know that communication is the first thing to break down in the field. In a perfect environment I could see it going fantastically but I'd like it if maybe we tested it at two smaller events before deploying it at Broken Home, which I still consider to be THE quintessential AMS event. But as others have stated, we do need to make sure we are evolving our gameplay, offering something fresh every now and then. Time will tell.

 

2) I do worry about GBB mag players. They've always been at a disadvantage as it is with a smaller ammo capacity. The amount of ammo being able to be slung down range for them compared to an AEG player is very much in favor of electric gun mid caps. Fielding testing will definitely provide more accurate feedback on this issue though.

3) Immersion is great and fresh gameplay ideas are fantastic but I also hope that as AMS switches things up that we offer that nice balance between local field play and events like Milsim West. I'm all for AMS offering special events that are a little more demanding (like a straight 24 hr our 30 hr op) but then offering the more classic gameplay we've come to know and love at the regular events too. 

TL;DR -

I like that fact that AMS is proactive in moving forward. We can't ever grow or evolve without experimenting or trying new things. The only thing I don't ever want to see happen is folks not view AMS as fun anymore. (And fun can come in a variety of shapes. Don't always have to be firing your gun to have a blast!) American Milsim has always been great about ironing out ideas and offering the best experience possible for their attendees. It's what keeps me coming back

[Chase 30]

 

-All windows must be down, including drivers window.

 

-Limit of two Mounted weapons systems on vehicles

 

 

 

 

Does this mean, the driver is classified as a "player" and is subject to having to be revived if shot?  Meaning that not only will rockets take out our trucks now, but a full auto machine gun to the driver window will also disable the truck?

 

Two mounted weapons systems...does that mean you can only have two mounted positions or only two mounted guns?

[ChibiPotatoes 29]

I definitely do like how the ammo'll be resupplied via personnel. It definitely encourages more communication between players -- albeit stressing moreso than before the importance of having a radio in your kit (not like it wasn't already super important before!). The idea of a squad/platoon being able to hold a position instead of being forced to return to the FOB for reload definitely has the potential of being a big game changer and that's exciting to me.

[Chase 30]

For those of you who are concerned with your ammo being stolen or used without permission, I have a solution for you.  Head to your local Wal-Mart and around the Home/Office area will be some safe/lock boxes.  The SentrySafe lockbox that I have was about $13.00 and comes with two keys.  As you can see, a bag, bottle, and a speed loader can all fit in this box easily with more room.  Get you one or two of these, mark them with your name or initials or something.

 

They also carry the SentrySafe 1200, which is slightly deeper than the CB12 model that I have, and walmart.com has it for $19.88 and it's fire resistant.

 

One problem solved.

 

-Backhander Out

[KaleemS 7]

Does the 7 magazine limit also apply to pistols too? Some friends and I are wondering about that cause two of us run bolt actions with a pistol. Thanks

[MumbleKing 7]

I think some of the guys were worried about the whole ammo box being missing not individual bags of bbs. As far as the 7 mag thing goes. That's really not a big deal and won't be a problem for most people. Except now it makes reloading our mags a major pain due to other limitations. Personally I'd rather see one or the other, not both. I also think ssw should have two box mags of 3000 each like before( but I only feel this way because I have two lol)

[Chase 30]

I think some of the guys were worried about the whole ammo box being missing not individual bags of bbs.

 

 

This is why I clearly stated:

For those of you who are concerned with your ammo being stolen or used without permission, I have a solution for you.

 

 

Lock box prevents unauthorized use (without a bunch of work to break it open).  As far as keeping up with the crates, we just have to trust our command personnel to keep track of them, like the Mobile M.A.S.H.  But, that's another thing that comes with maintaining communication and chain of command, but nobody gives a crap about the CoC because "It's Airsoft and I'm just here to shoot people.  I'm not going to sit here and defend an objective."

 

Command should issue orders to Platoon Leaders, who should relay those messages to Squad Leaders, but that's not how it goes.  Instead, everyone wants to be on command channel so they know what's going on.  Operation: Copperhead last year was horrible.  I was in Second Platoon, not only was my Platoon Leader not on Platoon Channel, none of the other squad leaders were on Platoon Channel, so my squad of 4 was completely cut off from anybody who wasn't within earshot...made for a difficult and stressful weekend.

[zconflictz 9]

I As far as the 7 mag thing goes. That's really not a big deal and won't be a problem for most people. Except now it makes reloading our mags a major pain due to other limitations. Personally I'd rather see one or the other, not both. 

I agree with you on that statement. I could see 7 mags with ammo being delivered a big problem for new comers like me. But thats my opinion. Im sure we can find some happy medium between the both.

I think someone allready said it but pre-placed reloading centers that we fight over etc 

[Transition 78]

I wonder how many people who think platoon leads will keep up with squads have ever actually left the main road at DDay? Have ever called back to command with two squads to be told yeah we dont care cause super goon seal squad qrf is stuck on the road by the bridge again, all day, and we need you to go save them rather than score points on the undefended parts of the field..  Can anyone tell me who was our platoon lead two years ago when we had TWO tacticals? Yeah that would be me, I could not get ahold of command all day even with vehicle mounted radios.  If we are still reloading at FOBs great, otherwise anyone not wanting to play at pegasus all day will be SOL on ammo.  I will say great now with less mags on people my support guns will actually be a difference on the field.  And with the vehicle changes maybe this year we wont see videos of players straight up cheating in the vehicles, admitting it. and ruining the game for the rest.  Either way I will be in the ravines wrecking squads again and again with command putting the fobbits into the meat grinder on the bridge and coleville.

[MumbleKing 7]

I'm sorry I should have been more clear. I meant the whole crate. Doesn't matter how many lock boxes you have if they are all gone.

[Chase 30]

Again, that's why it is up to command to keep track of it, just like the Mobile MASH units.

 

But, regardless, without communication, we are all screwed...except those of us who have POVs to drive back to camp in.  IDK, we will just have to see how it plays out.  I don't feel comfortable leaving my personal assets in a box everyone else has access to, even if it is in a lockbox.  I lost 10,000 rounds at BH4 with a KWA Speed Loader, and only about 10-20 people even had access to it.

 

Of course, at Copperhead, I was having issues with my $400 rifle, and left it at a Mobile M.A.S.H. for three hours, and upon my return, it was surprisingly still there.  This is supposed to be an honor-based sport, but you'll always have those who have no honor...and THAT is why I buy Condor gear as opposed to some of the higher priced stuff.

[Catalyst 8]

I have no issues with the mag rule. I've have yet to go to an ams event. The biggest game I've been at saw around 240 total players. And the longest time out in field before returning to fob/staging area was approx 2 hours. i haven't done anything to compare to something like broken home in other words but I must say those fretting over just 7 mags gave me a good chuckle... I've never gone out with more than 5 mags, two 150 rd mid caps and 3 50 rd real caps. And rarely go through more than 3 of those.

However, before anyone jumps down my throat, I can definitely understand gbbr users concerns about it considering their mags.

 

I'm intending to attend bh5 this year, but not sure what im bringing yet. My p90 has the right mags but has a semi fire issue. My ak doesn't have the semi fire issue but I'll have to buy mags as I only have hi caps.

 

The resupply rule does concern me, kinda scares me actually. At the same time it's very immersive, very mil sim.

The worries about comm breakdowns are a very real concern but again adds to the immersion and mil sim feel. Comms breakdowns and resupply issues have been plaguing military's for centuries, and always will.

[Mr. Yuk 229]

Folks, I believe the intent of the new "Resupply" rule is to allow continued combat operations in-field. This rule can be used to prevent the need to leave the AO to reload at the FOB. Some coordination will be needed to be successful and that is just going to heighten the intensity of the game and allow us the means to stay in the game instead of walking back to the FOB to refit if your not KIA already.

 

No comms? No problem. Just return to your FOB and reload as normal.

 

Worried about someone jacking your BBs? No problem. Just returned to your FOB and reload as normal.

 

People complain about the long walks at BH, and this rule can help alleviate some of them.

 

The magazine restrictions are to force smarter play and help move us away from ammo dumping grind fests. We all have options in what equipment we "choose" to buy. As someone who works in an Airsoft shop I forewarn my customers all the time that some Weapons Systems will have their limitations, some of them being limited magazine availability or ammo holding capacity. Magazine restrictions should not cause one to lose heart, but push the envolope of someone skills in testing them. If you rather ammo dump than think, I can understand your concerns.

 

There are many players who have been running GBB rifles for years and don't complain about their limited ammo capacity against their AEG competition. Candy and TRex are the first that come to mind and those guys aren't sucky players from my experience and create a lot of damage on the field; even with limited ammo capacity.

 

If you don't like how a rule effects your equipment, it may be time to re-evaluate your equipment and make changes. If not, rise to the challenge or (hopefully not) don't participate if you feel that strongly about giving it a chance. Choices, you know?

 

Most people don't seem to have too many issues with the new vehicle rules. I personally like the new vehicle rules as I found last year POVs a tad too overpowered is a game mechanic.

 

Overall I'm personally excited about these new changes. I also humbly respect a fellow players and their opinions on the matter and I'm positive that when the dust settles the AMS crew will have figured out the best way to further our experiences in a positive direction at their events. As part of leadership I must state that these are my opinions and do not necessarily reflect those of anybody else involved in command with me or anyone involved in AMS operations in general.

 

Thanks folks! Let's keep up the dialogue.

[Greg.AMS 175]

Well said Yuk. Remember poeple, we all have choices in the gear we use, how we play, how we evolve, or even how we participate.

[Polar 1]

So just because I have not seen it asked yet.

 

JP said the rule is 7 + 1. Does this include a secondary weapon? Pistol? or AEG if you are a sniper?