Op Copperhead UHaul Shenanigans

[reecedoan 5]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HncOcO2hsxQ

[Guest Specs]

Great stuff here. Pumped to see part 2.

[stagg 34]

So we are not even trying anymore?

 

The ultimate way to get a cardboard and plywood paintball tank. 

Except you don't have to build it, haul it, keep it running, or even bother to paint it.

Too bad it doesn't have windows in the back.

Just rent it for the weekend, and bam, you have yourself a bright orange and white assault wagon.

 

While you are at it.  Most Penske trucks have wooden floors.

If you bought some park benches, you could screw them down to the wooden floors and have seats in the back (don't tell your rental agent) This would allow you to pack even more junk, and ever more "Special Forces Operators" into the back.

After the event just unscrew the benches and sweep some dust into the holes, and nobody will know/care.

This might be too much work, but it would be worth it compared to the utter laziness of using a moving truck at a supposedly serious airsoft game.

[Aswayze 364]

Kind of cannot fault some of the logic.   If there is a low standard for what is a combat vehicle you might as well just stick with what is easy.  

 

Why transport a deuce or a real military truck when you can rent a box van with AC.   Keep the windows up and your miracle paintball tank armor will keep you safe while you drive around.   Lower deck means safer in and out for troops in the back and the sliding door to the cab makes it easier to communicate. 

From a strictly "win the game" perspective, this is perfect.   I'll have to point this one out to the guys who run tanks at the D-Day paintball game it would cover a lot of their bases as well and be much easier to clean up than an actual personally owned vehicle.  

[Guest Specs]

Not sure rental vehicles could keep up with D-Day's terrain though. Those hills with a truckload of people would be a recipe for getting stuck. On AO's like RY, CH, and IC though, this seems like a super viable alternative to costly POV's.

 

I wonder if there's a process to go through in purchasing older rental trucks that get cycled out? That'd be the dream.

[Longsword 74]

Hey, if the Federals want to use a U-haul at Broken Home IV and get it stuck somewhere, that's perfectly fine by me. CoST wouldn't ever use that to our advantage, no sir 

 

Though in all seriousness, I do have to wonder about the U-haul method. I mean, there's nothing to say it couldn't be used as a troop transport. I know most people enjoy for authenticity sake legitimate combat vehicles but we already allow pick-up trucks with an m60 mounted on the top, so why not a U-haul? It's not like during an actual warzone some general wouldn't say "We're low on vehicles, gentleman. Time to jerry-rig some local methods of transportation and get our men across the field."

Still, that being said. It does break the immersion for some. I've shown some people footage of AMS gameplay and they were never keen on regular trucks being used in-game. I think it would be okay since it can still get taken out by an RPG, I don't see why someone wouldn't actually use it in real life if the situation called for it and sometimes we are limited on resources. I'm just surprised that the Coalition didn't come up with that idea, since we'd have less access to official military vehicles if we looked at it from a realistic war standpoint.

Either way, I thought the U-Haul gig was highly entertaining.   

 

[Big Candy 321]

So we are not even trying anymore?

 

The ultimate way to get a cardboard and plywood paintball tank. 

Except you don't have to build it, haul it, keep it running, or even bother to paint it.

Too bad it doesn't have windows in the back.

Just rent it for the weekend, and bam, you have yourself a bright orange and white assault wagon.

 

While you are at it.  Most Penske trucks have wooden floors.

If you bought some park benches, you could screw them down to the wooden floors and have seats in the back (don't tell your rental agent) This would allow you to pack even more junk, and ever more "Special Forces Operators" into the back.

After the event just unscrew the benches and sweep some dust into the holes, and nobody will know/care.

This might be too much work, but it would be worth it compared to the utter laziness of using a moving truck at a supposedly serious airsoft game.

If you want to rent a Uhaul with your own money (which we did), pay for all the expenses (which we did), and cause irreparable damage as you are suggesting.... then by all means.... bring it.  Or PLEASE....  feel free to purchase multiple "realistic military vehicles", drive them or trailer them to EVERY OP...  and allow us to use them.

 

Ill even give you some gas money.  

 

 

Kind of cannot fault some of the logic.   If there is a low standard for what is a combat vehicle you might as well just stick with what is easy.  

 

Why transport a deuce or a real military truck when you can rent a box van with AC.   Keep the windows up and your miracle paintball tank armor will keep you safe while you drive around.   Lower deck means safer in and out for troops in the back and the sliding door to the cab makes it easier to communicate. 

From a strictly "win the game" perspective, this is perfect.   I'll have to point this one out to the guys who run tanks at the D-Day paintball game it would cover a lot of their bases as well and be much easier to clean up than an actual personally owned vehicle.  

If we would have had something else at our disposal, we would have used it.  However, when you need to transport 20ish fully equipped guys, quickly, over decent distances....  

 

"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are."

[stagg 34]

 

Or PLEASE....  feel free to purchase multiple "realistic military vehicles", drive them or trailer them to EVERY OP...  and allow us to use them.

 

Ill even give you some gas money.

 

Too late I already do own multiple Military vehicles and haul them all over the place.  Two of these are mine, the rest belong to people in Kansas and Missouri who play airsoft!

Several of us have been providing them free of charge to AMS for years.  This is experience talking.

But why bother? 

 

Please don't take this personally, since the U-haul idea is logical in AMS environments.... and so is my reason for being very selective in where I bring my military vehicles.  This is not intended to bash you, or any Organizers, rather it will explain why you did not see my trucks down there, nor will you see my trucks in an AO where a U-haul truck is acceptable.

 

Here is the why in long form:

Any vehicle's design is a trade off in performance.  A rugged go anywhere vehicle that is simple in function and simple to fix will not have the same features and high ground-speed or handling performance as something designed for the paved road.

 

Compare a Ford 1 ton dually VS. Jeep wrangler VS Chevy Malibu.

 

All three are designed to do something different.

Can you drive the 1 ton to work everyday?  sure.  Will it get the same milage as the Malibu?  But it will tow/haul a lot more.

Can the jeep fit into smaller spaces than the car?  They are about the same, yet the jeep is NOT a sedan and we do not argue this point.

 

Bigger trucks are the same.

A M35A2 gets about the same fuel mileage as that moving van, and hauls about the same number of people, and yet they are not the same vehicle.  Paint on the outside doesn't matter anymore than carpet on the inside matters to the vehicles performance.

Driving a "Deuce and a half" on a thousand mile trip is doable. (I am about to drive one 800 miles from Kansas to Ohio this weekend)

There are several of us who used to do this for events.  It takes a bit of work, and a decent amount to time to keep them running.  But it is our hobby and we enjoy it, mostly.

The cost is not as insurmountable as people assume.  But the cost to benefit must be worth doing.

 

Why do I not drive or trailer my vehicles to all AMS events?  Because the are better options. 

Why do other people not bring armored vehicles?  Because AMS has designed a game where real military vehicles (especially armored ones) are at a disadvantage.  Why would anybody spend their time to be good at something only to have a permanent handicap?

 

If I had driven my truck towing several other trucks to OP Copperhead, and my fellow drivers showed up in a U-haul truck what do you think my response would have been? 

 

Would I have though:

-Those smart bastards have A/C?  Yep

-That is a pretty clever way to get a big truck for hauling gear and ass? Yep

-Bet that saves a lot of fuel? Yep.

 

I would also think (as I do right now):

-Why do I bother bringing the correct truck?  Yep!

-Why should I bother to bring it next time? Damned right, Yep.

-Why should I bother to bring actual armored vehicles?  That real armor weights too much, to compete with fiberglass.

-I get treated the same way for kill rules as that obviously unarmored thing?  Checks rules.... Yep.

 

So in the end the reason that nobody brings military vehicles is not the cost, distance, or even the rules.... it is the players who bring pickup trucks with an MG stuck on top; it is the players who bring U-haul trucks as transports; it is the players who bring a fiberglass covered dune buggy as a "gun-truck."

 

Those of us who own the real trucks are fucking crazy, and willing to do drive.  We WANT a place to use our vehicles to the advantage provided by designers 40 years ago.  And we want to have fun doing it.

Competing at a disadvantage is not crazy it is stupid. 

Just because we are nuts does not mean that we are stupid.

 

As players you will have to chose what you want at the games.  If U-haul trucks as transports is what you want then who am I to say no.  I don't try to chose your beer for you, or your favorite sports team either.

Just don't expect me to like your favorites sports team... Also don't even hope that I will work hard to show up to airsoft events that do not offer the slightest glimmer of hope that my truck will be appreciated.  Even if someone else does pay the gas money.

[T-REX 242]

You say you dont bring your stuff because things like a u-haul are allowed to serve the same purpose....but have you ever thought that if you did bring your vehicles to the event, then the needs would be met and players would not need to result to bringing these other types of vehicles. Every vehicle has to go through a POV application process. There is a limit to how many are allowed. Now I am not AMS so I am only assuming here, but if I was reviewing the apps and had to decide between a actual military vehicle vs a uhaul, id go military. So instead of saying you do not want to show up and see these others used, bring yours and show that the needs have been met. Because if AMS sees the needs being met by "real" vehicles, the odds of a uhaul or a go cart being allowed normally would drastically reduce. Now that being said, each side is allowed a number of POV's....so you may see "others" on the opposite team. unless your sharing or your presence encourages others to bring their real ones.....there is always a solution

[Nasty 153]

I was on CoST and thought the U-Haul was genius. I wish I would have thought of that myself.  

 

Thinking outside of the box is good.  I wouldn't use that at Broken Home, but it makes sense for other AO's.  

 

Also while genius the only questionable tactic I saw with a transport vehicle at Copperhead was with UFS (I would say the same thing if it was CoST).  Pretty much everyone standing outside the vehicle had a dead rag on and I made a bad assumption the vehicle was out of play/going to respawn.  It took me by surprise when a bunch of guys jumped out and started firing.  I should have checked that the vehicle had the dead rag on.

[stagg 34]

I hear you Rex.  At Broken Home this year I am bring my M151A2 to the event. 

Unless I hear otherwise it will be used as the COST Commander's vehicle, providing him with outstanding mobility, while also being safe, and of course stylish.

(I can only drive one at a time, you know)

 

As noted before, have been doing this for more years than there has been a AMS, and most owners are not willing to come.... they ARE interested, but do not feel welcome.  Nor do they feel it is worth their time, or possible damage.

Until we change that perception they will remain uninterested.... and the gung-ho players will continue to come up with innovative ways to get the mission done.  I applaud the innovative part, and know the feeling of accomplishment from making due with what we have on hand.

I just wish we would do even more.

[Dave 781]

I personally think it was an ingenious idea.  No complaints here.

[Aswayze 364]

Nobody has ever thought of that T-Rex...   That changes everything!   

 

Here's the thing.  When a "Team Roxr LeEt NoOb Pow1rs" has a POV, it is their personal paintball tank.  They drive around in it doing things they want to do basically supporting their assigned mission but still basically being "theirs".       When a vehicle is at the disposal of the various side commanders and is not tied to one group of guys then it is a unit asset and it can support the overall goal of the entire side.    When you do that, you do not need 1 quadzillion paintball tanks running around you can easily get by with just a few that are able to directly support the overall side objectives rather than just squad/team objectives.  

 

Now, everyone can be supported by trucks, not just the guys who painted up moms old Honda Pilot or the guys who thought to bring a U-haul van.    Thing of it is, if you want vehicles that are genuinely useful to the GROUP, you do want legit vehicles.   You can comfortably and easily drive an M151 through things that would demolish a UTV, you probably would not believe what you can drive a deuce through.   

 

If you make that change and support real military vehicles (or as we like to say "milsim") then yes, you will have a period of adjustment but in the end you will have exactly what you are looking for and will provide a better experience for everyone. 

 

Example:  

 

This is about half of the light vehicles on NATO at East Wind this last spring.  (the rest were out on patrol)   All of these belong to Airsofters.   I know that there are still more M151 owners in Ok City that own them as well.   

 

We only had Deuce 6025 and 6015 down this year because we did not need the other 2...  Nor the 5 ton... 

 

We had 2 5/4 ton Dodges and could have rounded up 2 more easily enough but again did not need them so we did not.  

 

Didn't worry with fixing the CUCV, didn't need that either.  

 

Oh ya...  And that is just the NATO side...  The Warpac side has nearly the same amount of vehicles..   

 

So this was a >100 person event that ran once per year...  

 

No only no need to resort to paintball tanks and U-Haul vans but also no need to even bring ALL THE VEHICLES THAT WE HAD AVAILABLE.  

 

Was it always this way?  Nope...

 

 

We started off with vismod civvy trucks too.  To be fair, we mostly made the jump to legit trucks as much as a result of the fact that we ran 24/7 across the full expanse of the AOs that we use and as such, the civvy trucks were just not cutting the mustard but the object lesson here is the same.   Set high standards and some people will reach for them.  As they reach and succeed, others will follow.  

 

Set low standards and they will always remain low.    

 

 

One last thought in closing, do you want to be milsim or paintball sim?    

[Big Candy 321]

Next time we could paint Marriott on the side and mount an mg on the front if that would be more acceptable?

[stagg 34]

That has to be an interesting story, and hopefully one that ended well.  I wonder what the traffic cone on the side is doing?

 

In the real world shit happens. No argument.

Also not arguable is, in the real world that Marriott truck and a purpose built military truck are nothing alike.

 

In airsoft where we set limits, we can create an environment where they become the same. At which point the cheaper and simple option is the smart option. And right now the smart option is a U-haul truck.

I bet you could even get them to work at the DDAY Park, for Broken Home. Just need to get the smaller ones with less overhang behind the rear axle.

[Bagel 423]

Thumbs up as a transport, as long as it's not being used as a "tank". The irony of Uhaul's and Crye kit still cracks me up though, when some of those were the same guys crying about a UTV with a SAW mounted on the back.

[RangerFox 40]

i dont mean to shout out suddenly, but what is the exact make and model of that Vismod Civvy Truck?

[Aswayze 364]

That one was a mid 80s Suzuki Samurai.   Those little guys really did pretty well.   East Wind tended at that time to be mostly off road/off trail which is a pretty harsh environment for Vismods.   

[RangerFox 40]

do you know if the person that brought it still has it? i want one so badly.

[Aswayze 364]

That particular one is long gone but tascabe on the East Wind forum still has one of them.   

[RangerFox 40]

Thanks bud, appreciate it.

[Kolt1911 75]

I very much want to bring a POV to Broken Home in the future, so I'm about to go bolt a 240B to my brother's mustang and just kinda play it by ear and it will be something that would at least be viable for a real world scenario. I don't like the fiberglass go-cart tanks, and poorly done technicals make my stomach hurt. 

If I had unlimited resources, I would go acquire an M113, FV432, or similar relatively inexpensive APC, mount some sort of cannon on it, as well as assorted secondary weapons, and call it good. 

Realistically, the best case scenario is in a few years I can afford a Deuce and convert it to a gun truck, name it "Phantom 309" and proceed to pick up way-faring hitchhikers and pay the locals to tell them I'm a ghost although I am more likely to simply buy a civilian Jeep (Cherokee looks nice for this purpose, although the Wrangler or Liberty would work, too), put fake armor on it, and mount a light machine gun on the roof on a pintle mount. 

I don't know if there's criteria for drivers at AMS events or not. At OP: Copperhead things look relatively flat, but at DDAP the only thing flat is unfortunate players that happen to be in the way if someone rolls over, which is why the Uhaul works for Copperhead and not for DDAP. Those things roll like a ball if you make too sharp a turn on the right hill. If I can bring a vehicle, I personally will be sure to follow posted speed limits and err on the side of caution - if not, call Randy Travis and tell him to put out a new demo, because it's liable to be three dozen crosses on the right of the highway.

[Beaver 105]

In my opinion, not as a representative of AMS, I argue the validity that the presence of a civilian vehicle takes away from the realism of a milsim event in a built up area. Ever since WWII, in which Aswayze is intimately familar, vehicles that are used by the civilian populace have been refitted to support the fight.

 

Iraq 2015

 

Afghanistan

 

Even our own military

 

So saying that the use of a civilian vehicle to aid fighting forces in a conflict is not realistic, is in itself not realistic. Yes I love seeing the WWII era willy jeeps, they're a favorite; but by reality they are less realistic to a modern conflict than the use of civilian vehicles.

Again, just  my opinion, not as a representative of AMS. Let the flaming begin, I'm a Bravo and I can take it.

[Downs 99]

To put some perspective on this......

 

My dad was with an Army Light Infantry unit during Operation Just Cause in Grenada.  They started out on foot with nothing in the way of wheeled or tracked vehicle support (light infantry and all that) and they wound up "acquiring" 3 civilian dump trucks that they cut gun ports in the side of and welded up makeshift cab armor and used that till the invasion was over with. 

 

Recent training event in Colorado I attended.  The Commander of the OPFOR (the XO of our parent command) brought his own POV with him and welded a mount to stick a .50cal on the back of his truck.  Hell we used 44 pax busses as transport trucks during troop movements. 

 

Anyone who's even spent time on a state side base know that all kinds of little "civilian" vehicles get used for odd jobs all over the base.  Even Kawasaki Mules and Polaris Rangers. 

 

Point is don't get wound around the axle about the "authenticity" of military vehicles because even in good times you see some odd stuff get used.

[Aswayze 364]

You are correct, battlefield commanders do at times make do with whatever is laying around.  

 

Does that mean that a rented UHaul truck will stop .556 rounds?  

 

Does that mean that the windshield on the above pictured M880 will stop .556 rounds?   

 

Nope.

 

Paintball tanks are not the same as taking a risk and trading mobility for concealment and/or armor protection.