Clarification on Medic Rules while in a POV

[RoninKiros 27]

When I attended Operation Broken Home III last year, I read over the rules several times to make sure I understood them 100%.  Throughout the entire event, I felt confident that I was following the rules...with one exception.

There was a bit of a cloudy area in regards to the medic rules while being in a POV.  When videos started coming out from people riding around with various technical groups, a big discussion I saw was how people would be cheating by reviving in the back of a vehicle.

The discussion came up once again on the CoST Facebook page and so I wanted to get some official clarity as to the rules.  To start off, I'll post the current argument and the rule set for medics and the POVs.

1) The Argument

Some people say that it is against the rules to medic people while in a POV while others say that it is not.

My stance: The rules may provide a slight grey area but for the most part, I am a firm believer that people can be medic revived AS LONG AS it is a medic doing the reviving.

2) The Rules
 

MEDIC RULES

A. Each squad will be assigned only one medic. (Subject to change with various Teams and Squads)

B. A medic will treat a fellow player by going up to that player and bandaging the area where the player was hit

C. A player may only be bandaged TWICE.

D. Medic CAN NOT re-use bandages from "dead" players.

E. A medic may not treat himself; only another medic can give them aid.

F. Wounded players may be physically "dragged, carried, lifted, etc.." to a medic by any means that is NOT UNDER THEIR OWN POWER.

G. Wounded players are NON AMBULATORY.

H. All Players must have an IFAK on their person that contains TWO (2) ace type bandages for the medic to treat them with.(CAT of SOFT-T tourniquets are not acceptable)

I. Medics must WRAP the bandages around the players arm, they are NOT allowed to TIE or have pre-made loops in which to tie the bandage onto a player.

J. Bandages must be a MINIMUM of 4 ft (48in) in length each.

K. Medics may be changed within the squad while at the FOB or between evolutions, but not while active on the AO.

POV Rules

(edited to remove the rules not in question)

M.  Players shot inside a vehicle are to follow the normal medic and re-spawn rules.

3) The Debate

The biggest argument I have seen is how the people who are shot are NON AMBULATORY.  Upon looking up the definition, we get the following:
 

Definition of NONAMBULATORY

:  not able to walk about

With that being said, the only real arguments I've heard about it being illegal was this.  I believe that by following the two bandage rule, it is legal.  However, due to the large amount of people who take to one side or the other, I just want to get some clarification if it is legal to revive while in a POV or if it is not legal.  I firmly believe that as long as the rules are followed (bandage rules, a medic is reviving, etc.) that it is legal.  Others state that the player has to dismount from the POV before being revived.

Anyways, was really looking for some official clarification so that I will be fully educated going into Broken Home IV.  While at BH3, I was going off of what others who had attended more ops than me were saying and now, being called a cheater, I want to ensure I know the rules 100%.  I am an honorable player and I try to ensure everyone has fun.

Thanks for your time!

[Rich 34]

There is no rule stating that being revived within a vehicle is not allowed.  I don't see where anyone can come up with any sort of argument if there is no rule banning revives in vehicles.

[rviehmann 22]

I'm with Rich on this... no different than if you needed to transport a vip or such and utilized the vehicle for safety or such but alas not my call haha

[Aswayze 364]

Regardless of what the rules say, a decent rule of thumb for this sort of thing:  

 

"If the other side was doing XXX would we think that they were wankers for doing so?"  

 

If yes, don't do it, it makes you look like a wanker.  

 

If no, consult the rules and make sure it is actually OK then proceed.  

 

I have called myself out on many occasions when the rules did not say I had to for just such reasons.   Remember that the quality of the event is vastly more important than the rules.  

 

Don't be a rules lawyer << Pretty much code for Wanker

[TimmyHorton 72]

Seems pretty clear to me, just sound like some people are trying to justify a loss by calling the other team cheaters.

 

POV Rules

 Players shot inside a vehicle are to follow the normal medic and re-spawn rules.

 

MEDIC RULES

 F. Wounded players may be physically "dragged, carried, lifted, etc.." to a medic by any means that is NOT UNDER THEIR OWN POWER.

G. Wounded players are NON AMBULATORY.

 

Its like in video games as well  if you lose or get killed everyone on the other team is a hacker. same age group different game. 

The AMS team are smart people and more than likely have thought about this exact scenario.  

 

I do not want it to seem as I am calling you out Aswayze but the quality of a event means nothing if there is no integrity and a way to hold players accountable, otherwise you end up with the ''quality''  try hards  OLCMSS brings around, repeditaly breaking the same rules each event, damaging property, causing completely avoidable injuries etc.... John is an amazing person but he is not able to be everywhere to stop this crap.  there is good players at lion claws but they are not the ones you hear about all the time bringing bad attention to these events. I just hope AMS never turns into that 

 

 if I am to be called a wanker for following the rules and using them to my advantage then....I'm a wanker

 

that being said don't go around bang killing people when you know you have no ammo left, and if some yells parlay at me they are going to get shot since we are not pirates and only douches use that so they can shoot you in the back 

[Rich 34]

Seems pretty clear to me, just sound like some people are trying to justify a loss by calling the other team cheaters.

 

POV Rules

 Players shot inside a vehicle are to follow the normal medic and re-spawn rules.

 

MEDIC RULES

 F. Wounded players may be physically "dragged, carried, lifted, etc.." to a medic by any means that is NOT UNDER THEIR OWN POWER.

G. Wounded players are NON AMBULATORY.

 

Its like in video games as well  if you lose or get killed everyone on the other team is a hacker. same age group different game. 

The AMS team are smart people and more than likely have thought about this exact scenario.  

 

I do not want it to seem as I am calling you out Aswayze but the quality of a event means nothing if there is no integrity and a way to hold players accountable, otherwise you end up with the ''quality''  try hards  OLCMSS brings around, repeditaly breaking the same rules each event, damaging property, causing completely avoidable injuries etc.... John is an amazing person but he is not able to be everywhere to stop this crap.  there is good players at lion claws but they are not the ones you hear about all the time bringing bad attention to these events. I just hope AMS never turns into that 

 

 if I am to be called a wanker for following the rules and using them to my advantage then....I'm a wanker

 

My sentiments exactly.

[RoninKiros 27]

Perhaps I should go into a little more detail about the situation at hand.

Let's say you have a team of six people in the back of a truck that has raised sides to help enclose the back of the truck.  However, the top is not covered and while going through a urban area, the enemy team attacks and is able to shoot down into the truck, getting four of the people out.  As they drive out of the area, they come to a stop to check on everyone.  A medic is also in the back and was uninjured during the skirmish and begins to revive people in the back of the truck following the medic rules (no person revived more than twice, out people have to supply their own bandages, etc.).  However, an enemy response unit begins to assault the technical.  Because the medic was physically in the back of the truck, would that warrant the ability to revive people since the technical was never taken out by a rocket and since the medic was never shot?

Some people claim that is unfair for people to be able to be revived while in a vehicle because of their armor and how some have machine guns.  One of the theories was that a technical would fall under the medic rules within a building.  Last year at Broken Home, I believe the rules were that you couldn't be medic revived while in a building but now those rules have changed.

[Rich 34]

Perhaps I should go into a little more detail about the situation at hand.

 

Let's say you have a team of six people in the back of a truck that has raised sides to help enclose the back of the truck.  However, the top is not covered and while going through a urban area, the enemy team attacks and is able to shoot down into the truck, getting four of the people out.  As they drive out of the area, they come to a stop to check on everyone.  A medic is also in the back and was uninjured during the skirmish and begins to revive people in the back of the truck following the medic rules (no person revived more than twice, out people have to supply their own bandages, etc.).  However, an enemy response unit begins to assault the technical.  Because the medic was physically in the back of the truck, would that warrant the ability to revive people since the technical was never taken out by a rocket and since the medic was never shot?

 

Some people claim that is unfair for people to be able to be revived while in a vehicle because of their armor and how some have machine guns.  One of the theories was that a technical would fall under the medic rules within a building.  Last year at Broken Home, I believe the rules were that you couldn't be medic revived while in a building but now those rules have changed.

 

I thought I recalled that rule about no revives in buildings.  Wasn't sure I was remembering correctly because it wasn't in the rules on here.  I can understand if they want to remain consistent and only allow revives outdoors, but honestly, I think people need to just suck it up.  People whine too much.  Improvise, adapt, overcome.

[Alex AMS 614]

The medic rules have been changed to allow revives anywhere. There might be people talking about the old medic rules from last year.

[RoninKiros 27]

So would that essentially mean that reviving in POVs would be legal under the premise that a medic was on board?

[Alex AMS 614]

Yes, it states very clearly that normal medic rules apply in vehicles.

[TimmyHorton 72]

there we have it strait from staff. the whole point of a POV is to provide armoured transport that is why squads are set up with a HWS if you dont want the medic to revive people you better make sure you grenader or AT guy can hit that POV ,or the more ballsy alternative use your MG guy to suppress the vehicle keeping the enemy locked in cover ,then run up and toss in a grenade, tornado type preferably.  

 

 I registered medic but Im bringing along my M203 and shells incase i can dual role. 

 

funny airsoft vs reality video re guarding vehicles 

 

https://youtu.be/2kZDao7_dH0?t=2m13s

[refuge 12]

So, Having attended Broken Home II and III, I can state that, during safety and rule briefings, people were being told that medicing inside vehicles was not allowed.  However, even during those years, the rules were pretty much identical to this years.  (At least BH3 was).  the statement 'normal medic rules apply' was the same then as it is now, as well as the ability to medic inside buildings.  In fact, I have a post I made last year about this very thing, because people were calling it cheating because of what was said in the briefings vs the rules.

 

In my opinion, the biggest problem with the OPs I have seen is the last minute or 'on-the-fly' rules changes.  (Last year, for BH3, the vehicle rules were changed a week out from the OP, causing massive problems with keeping things straight).  The only thing I would ask, is that, if there are going to be changes to the rules, that they be solidified BEFORE the registration of the event, and not changed right before the OP.  Also, to make sure that what the rules say in hard copy match what is said in the briefings, so that we don't have this confusion.  

Also, TimmyHorton, do NOT throw a grenade inside a vehicle's cover.  We had that happen more than once last year, and had at least one person hurt from it.  Those things hurt when they hit you in the fact.  I guarantee you will start a fight if you do that.  (Also, you are not allowed within 10 feet of the POV anyways, and touch kills no longer count.  if you wanna disable the vehicle, use a HWS rocket into the back of the vehicle and that will also kill everyone, per the rules or the front, which disables it, and requires everyone to either go back to FOB or disembark.  Thus allowing you to kill them all at the time of exiting.)

[Beaver 105]

If referencing past BHs, then a building was a control point that could be taken by either side. Having a medic (respawn) in there, at the time, seemed to be a potential for issues. So is was ruled that wounded had to be removed to be medic'd. The player base showed that it isn't.

All that is now a moot point as the rules have changed and have been clarified by Alex, a ruling party. As far as changes to a ruleset, it is a living document that needs to adapt to an ever changing environment. To make a rule and never have the flexibility to relook at its possible adaptations, would allow for an arena to become stagnate to its evolving attendants.