Tactical Gaming Innovations Grenades

[Scared 2]

Are the non-pyro pecker projectiles alright for use?

[screwballjim 94]

They've said chalk is still pending but nothing regarding the Non effect rounds

[PMO Gordo 4]

https://www.facebook.com/MilSimLabs/posts/10152711283756519

 

Tread carefully, gentlemen.

 

"I contacted them directly asking for MSDS sheets, DOT approval letters, data on charge weights etc. Here was the response:

 

"We are currently running through US local licensing. Our law office dealing with it and I can't provide you any information before we have it done.

 

Best regards,

Mark Butman
TAGINN International sales"

 

So there you have it, not legal in the US, never has been, all stock in the US at the moment has been imported illegally, TAG is aware of this. Because they do not meet APA 87 construction standards they have to be sent to an approved lab and tested ,This is expensive and time consuming compared to conventional fireworks approvals

 

Ramifications

From the BATFE
"The U.S. Department of Transportation regulations forbid the transportation of any unapproved explosive. These explosive devices typically are not submitted for testing and have not been approved under the Hazardous Materials Regulations for transportation. Additionally, under federal explosives law it is illegal to engage in the business of manufacturing explosives without a license, to improperly store explosives, to sell or distribute explosives to any person who does not hold an ATF license or permit, to receive explosives without a license or permit, or to transport explosives materials without a license or permit. "

 

Yep, without the DOT approval the taginn product line is BATFE controlled , same paperwork needed as blasting caps and DET cord, and its illegal to transport them as well. I got a second email stating the pyro charge was approx 84.2MG of flash powder, when I asked what products, the response was all the products were similar. Predictions if this is correct - There is a very real chance the reaper rounds could be approved as consumer fireworks as they are under the 130mg limit for aerial devices. This however is costly and the sales may not justify it, its not like they are selling them by the 40' cargo container like normal fireworks. The hand grenades are over the 50mg limit for ground devices so I don't expect them to pass, Especially given they are designed to produce a "dangerous" debris feild. They might get an articles pyrotechnic rating or a display fireworks rating, but that makes them a no go for consumers. The Paladin's impact fuze has to hit something to go off. As such I suspect it will be classed as a ground device, as it is over the 50mg limit for ground devices, and it does not have the Federally required 3-9 sec fuze, I would not expect it to be approved as consumer fireworks."

[Aswayze 364]

Golly, that's very helpful of you to collect this information for us.

 

I am absolutely CERTAIN that you do not have any personal interest in the success or failure of the aforementioned goodies.

[TimmyHorton 72]

I know guys who at events IN Moscow and Kazan Russia that have been unintentionally  hit with these thing from AIR CANNONS not by the cute little TAG launching shells, one of guys even has footage of him getting hit by it  and the other guy was hit by the impact explosive type in the stomach both guys had no serious lasting injury beside some light brusing.

I am not a law person or part of the ''completely objective and totally not biased '' BATFE''  but I see no real reson why all of TAG products wont come to the NA market even if amount of explosives used has to be adjusted.

 

but to play the part of someone making assumptions on incomplete information I can tell you for sure is that if you want these to be delivered by a certain brown shipping company  in NA and the EU you may have to pay a HAZMAT handling fee depending on the final explosives ratings and amount... or  they may not even be allowed through our system since they are explosives set off by IMPACT.

 

https://www.youtube.ru/watch?v=7ZLbgXK-Ues

[PMO Gordo 4]

I can assure you that fear of competition is NOT the reason the owner of Milsimlabs brought this up. It's about keeping the sport and the cherished "milsim" events legal and alive. All it takes is an overzealous ATF agent to find out about the TAGinn pyro products to shut down their illegal import, or worse, the Milsim West or AMS events. Please channel your energy to petition the lawmakers and public to enact reasonable laws that allow more pyro devices available to Airsoft, while keeping the public safe.

 

FYI, the owner of Milsimlabs' main job is a pyro-technician to set up aerial fireworks and pyro displays at Airsoft games. He knows what he is talking about.

[Aswayze 364]

I have no doubt that he knows what he is talking about.  

 

Regardless, I would caution you to spend less time rootin and tooting about legal stuff when you obviously have a conflict of interest.   I am pretty sure that I am not the only one who looks at things like this as a "Well what about Jimmy, he has a bb gun too" situation.    When you are in a situation where you find that rules deny you from doing something the LAST thing you do is go raising a stink about someone else doing it.  

 

Because...  to me at least...  it looks like people exactly like YOU are the problem.  Tag was obviously skating under the radar just fine until someone decided to make a stink about it.  

 

That means that I most certainly will not be buying anything from you, and since you were kind enough to throw Milsim Labs under the bus, probably not from them either.

 

In the interest of being open.  I am not affiliated with Tag, don't plan to be, don't own any of their stuff and do not really care about it, I just do not appreciate this sort of behavior.  

[Texas_operators 16]

What about paladins at BH4

[MSL 5]

@ aswayze
take it for what's it worth, they went from under the radar to on it when airsoft outlet NW and Extreme airsoft tried to do things right, 
now the alphabet soups are in on it...thats what happens when it goes from few boxes at a time to random people to distributors bringing in bulk shipments.

The net was full of "their legal" etc, all we did was correct that information so people were not making a mistake based on bad information.

Sellers were lying to people so they could make a profit, how are we the "bad" guys for bringing that to light?

I don't care about the sellers, that's there own deal and there own bed to lie in, but "news at 10, Airsoft store raided for illegal explosives, BATFE seizes customer list"  is not great for the sport, at all
neither is the fact that a game host saying they are allowed when some one asks, can lead to conspiracy charges 
or just some poor guy who got busted at a traffic stop on the way to a game going to jail when he thought is was all on the up and up
that hurts ALL of us

The point was to inform players so they understood the legal risks, nothing more. What they do with the info is up to them.

Look, the alphabet soups are going to take care of the exploding stuff, we are fully aware of that and have been for some time(it was just a matter of it getting big enuf), so if we wanted to go after tag to improve our market share we would start with safety concerns on the pecker and paddlin non pyro rounds do to the hard plastic body sometimes tumbling in flight etc. Break out the high speed, the block of ballistic clay, post some videos to youtube, Those tag products are in direct competition with us not the exploding ones, 

 

you know what, we didn't. You don't build yourself up by tearing someone else down. and if you feel thats what happened your sorely mistaken. 

We chose to protect the players and the sport instead, if we take a market share hit for that, so be it, we would do it again. 
so yes we put the information on our FB page, right there with the GREAT video of Anthony Luna's incredibly long range TAG kill on the EVIKE Hummer at Road to Roastov 

look we didn't cum the waters,we didn't drop a dime to the sharks, but when we saw fins circling, we suggested to players it was time to get out  

Seth C

[MSL 5]

TAG Update!
The guys at Extreme Airsoft sent me an email following up on the information they provided earlier in the year

they are reporting they have made headway with the DOT and BATFE and will (legally!!) be bringing the product to market in a short amount of time.
It is no small amount of work or $$ to push an explosive item threw the red tape.
If you want TAG products, please support them, retailers that take the time to do thing right and legal are our future as the sport grows and becomes more main stream

[Firefox88 13]

Any place around Iowa that sells these? Amped Airsoft, Xtreme Airsoft and Airsplat are the only state side places that sells them (that I can find so far) and they can't ship any except the dummy rounds and the shells. I need a place that I can drive to (within a few hours one way) or a place that will deliver to esr 19. Anyone know any places?