Jump to content
American MilSim
Schlabie

Operation Helium

Recommended Posts

I'm torn guys.

 

I accepted safety kills all day with a little thing called integrity. I got bested and accepted it.

 

What are your thoughts?

 

You know, Im with you man. That's an outright, no grey area "You bested me" thing. I'dve taken that kill. but, devil's advocate here, there is no safety kill rule, so you are taking a chance in offerering it.

 

It's what Bash described to me over the weekend as the "Don't be a dick" rule. It's unwritten, and is expected of any seasoned operator, but at the same time, rules don't work on a spirit of the rules basis, you have to write your rules by the letter, because that's the only thing thats enforceable at the end of the day. I think not having a bang rule at this facility might be a mistake.

 

This is one of those "Man that rule" sucks situations. We had another involving the spawn setup and rules at this op too, where some guys jumped out of woodland respawn to shoot bash and a teammate as they circled around past the spawn. technically, a legal manuever, but, kind of a dick move. I didn't participate, and after speaking to bash to kind of calm some heated heads a bit, chewed butt on my own team about how it was pretty uncool.

 

However, letter of the law is whats enforceable, spirit of the rules is what we as operators have to strive for to be better, but is un-enforceable. it's the nature of rules, with anything, really.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Like Blackbird mentioned about the 'Don't be a dick rule', If that we're me, yeah I would have taken the kill, but at most big OP's you can't be assured of everyone's integrity unless you know them from playing with them before. I just assume that pretty much every player is going to argue the kill and just shoot them in the gear. If you shoot them, there is little argument to be made. That being said though, Kilroy, you can hold your head high and proudly say that you never stooped to their level and do indeed have more integrity weather they were right by the written rules or not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

i have been holding off posting anything, but really???

 

the field owner has the right and the responsibility to have the field rules, his field his rules.... period.

 

but really people? please safety kill me all day rather than shooting me at 2-5 feet, i will call myself out.

dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not complaining about the rule at all, I think when there are close engagements where both parties know where the other is at, safety kills are used in a BS manner alot, so I'm fine with going by who gets shot first. However, when a player is dead to rights, as the people in the video were, they should of had the honor and respect to accept the kill. Additionally since their respawn was just down the stairs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The rule is; that you are allowed to offer safety kills to the person, but the person DOES NOT have to accept them. If I was 5 feet away from Kilroy, and instead of shooting him point blank I offered safety kill, and he turns around and shoots me instead thats fair game. I like the rule, and most people offer safety kills.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, that was fuckin hilarious!!!

 

Seriously though, this is why too many rules that cater to making the game so "accessible" or gay rules like the SMG rule should not be in effect. It just makes things so much more complicated and convoluted. I miss when Airsoft was the underground fight club that it was back in the early 2000s.

 

It's Airsoft, not Sunday Crocheting Club. THe object of the game is, you guessed it -- to SHOOT each other -- that is what we pay to do. Let's just shoot each other and have lulz about it later.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok, that was fuckin hilarious!!!

 

Seriously though, this is why too many rules that cater to making the game so "accessible" or gay rules like the SMG rule should not be in effect. It just makes things so much more complicated and convoluted. I miss when Airsoft was the underground fight club that it was back in the early 2000s.

 

It's Airsoft, not Sunday Crocheting Club. THe object of the game is, you guessed it -- to SHOOT each other -- that is what we pay to do. Let's just shoot each other and have lulz about it later.

 

That's all well and good, but when your field/op/production is a business, you need insurance, and insurance means safety concerns, which means rules.

 

End of the story is, this rule sucked, that's it.

 

but Honestly, the rule is in the right place, as somewhere like FAA, you're going to have safety kills used teh wrong way in a BS manner. The fault is in the operators who couldn't recognize they'd been beat, by a guy who just sprinted down the hallway.

 

is what it is. I offered safety kills all weekend, some guys took it, some guys got shot in the ass. that's airsoft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly. The players themselves can make an OP more or less enjoyable. In the case of this OP these players with less integrity were peppered amongst both teams. I yelled at Marines for BS moves just as much as the green team. There was rampant BS at this OP from the players. There were people shooting at general movement in the buildings which resulted in rampant team killing. I also heard players yelling into buildings claiming to be the same team but were not. Again, none of this was technically against the rules but was totally out of line and uncalled for. Those are the kinds of players that make or break an OP and can influence weather or not people come back. Problem is that it can be tough to weed those guys out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is primarily why all major events here in the Northeast no longer use the "surrender"/"bang" rule. It just left too many grey areas and made for more problems than it solved. Of course, we also have a very tight community here and almost everyone knows everybody when we all hit the big events, so having the same 300 people again and again makes for some cool, unwritten honor rules (and many thanks are granted from bang rules being offered and taken). If things get close (such as when we are in a killhouse and engagements can happen at 2-3 feet), we always do our best to shoot center mass and if it gets a little hairy, most players will stop to make sure the other guy is okay before proceeding -- it's almost very much like the mosh pit mentality.

 

Yeah those players should have taken the hit, but then again there will always be those players who bend, flex and twist a rule unless it is written in granite by the hand of God himself from the peaks of Mt. Sinai. That's why you just shoot them lol!

 

I bet, if he had run down that hallway shooting, he would've gotten shot before actually making it to the other side as those idiots probably just perceived him as someone trying to be funny while running down the hallway screaming. Yeah, he would've got shot before getting all of them, but he would've owned those guys that he did shoot beyond a shadow of a doubt.

 

Still an awesome move though and one that took a ton of balls.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly. The players themselves can make an OP more or less enjoyable. In the case of this OP these players with less integrity were peppered amongst both teams. I yelled at Marines for BS moves just as much as the green team. There was rampant BS at this OP from the players. There were people shooting at general movement in the buildings which resulted in rampant team killing. I also heard players yelling into buildings claiming to be the same team but were not. Again, none of this was technically against the rules but was totally out of line and uncalled for. Those are the kinds of players that make or break an OP and can influence weather or not people come back. Problem is that it can be tough to weed those guys out.

 

Metal, I don't even think I saw you there brother, i was pretty bummed the one time I saw Bash was preceeding an incident requiring me to chew some serious butt amongst 3 seperate squads on our side. Was kind of a buzzkill on the end of an otherwise excellent op. but your right sometimes the players can make or break the game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can see it go both ways... when I know a guy has me dead to rights I have no issue w/ a safety. I ran into the same issue Zippo did at Gronzy when I pistol tapped around six players and Greg Anderson was the only one that took the safety.

 

I think no safety rule can cause some serious issues and player arguments, but on the flip side I can't stand it when someone jumps into a room of 4-5 people and yell "safety" and then gets pissed when he/she get shot, because in reality your not going to pistol whip 5-6 guys in a room unless they are all in your LOS and even if that is the case it's still gonna be a feat.

 

You need to play it by ear I guess, IMO all the guy Zippo got should have accepted a SK, but at the end of the DAY they played by the rules, even if we don't agree with them. The good thing is I know Zippo deep down understands that he made a bad ass move, and on top of that got it on video.

 

Personally I hardly ever safety a person unless they have ZERO recourse, because it's just much easier to roll into room and either get shot or dbl tap everyone in the chest and avoid any arguments.

Edited by TheJP
TYPOS TOO MUCH BEER

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly, JP.

 

what the Midnight Rider Recon crew learned at this game, was that investing in "ColdSteel" Tomahawks, made by Jay, the head admin at FAA, instead of using our usual training knives, was a great idea.

 

I'll need to dig up the video, but at one point, my teammate Hammy, rounded a corner, and tomahawked i think it was six dudes all stacked up, similar in surprise factor to zippo's move, except, you can't say no to a knife kill. Sadly, I don't have it on vid, but another player got it and put it up on vimeo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I enjoy the "no safety kill/bang rule" at FAA, and some of the other locations in Texas. Hence why I voice my opinion so loudly in the rules section here. In CQB environments, where we are supposed to get close... this keeps that "scared kid" from yelling safety at everybody. In both instances... jumping into a room with 6 dudes, no "dead to rights" on anybody, both parties know about each others locations...and yelling bang. Not cool. Don't bend the rules to your advantage, its a safety thing... not something to be exploited. Find ways to fight, not go for a cop out.

 

I saw a comment earlier about Airsoft being an underground fight club back in the early 2000s. I liked this statement a lot. Its airsoft... expect to get shot. In close engagements, at the FAA location, its common knowledge to back up or go to pistol/knife. Dont want to get bloodied? Perhaps wear thicker clothing, and face mask?

 

Bangs are offered as a courtesy at the FAA location. Normally from veterans to veterans. Common veteran players at the location will rarely offer safety kills to players whom he is unfamiliar with. They just pop with a pistol or knife, a valid move at FAA.

 

Personally I like this situation better than arguing over the validity of a safety kill that is unconditional.

 

So my simply stated opinion is to drop the safety kill rules in CQB engagements, opt for pistol/knife kills under 20ft or backup. After preaching this for the last few months, I understand that not all will agree with my opinion here. I'll quote something below that I think everybody can agree with:

 

Durring briefings were safety kills/bang rules required:

Announce that while a safety kill/bang rule is expected and enforced, explain during briefing that this rule is purely only for safety. Try to fight. Find ways to shoot, this is what we are here for. Do not bend this rule to an advantage, and is not to be exploited. Find safe ways to fight, not cop out.

 

Maybe this will help bring the mentality back to the "glory days" we remember from the early 2000s. We have a new generation of player... maybe we should just train them better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly, JP.

 

what the Midnight Rider Recon crew learned at this game, was that investing in "ColdSteel" Tomahawks, made by Jay, the head admin at FAA, instead of using our usual training knives, was a great idea.

 

I'll need to dig up the video, but at one point, my teammate Hammy, rounded a corner, and tomahawked i think it was six dudes all stacked up, similar in surprise factor to zippo's move, except, you can't say no to a knife kill. Sadly, I don't have it on vid, but another player got it and put it up on vimeo.

 

Yes, I actually heard about the Tomahawk kill spree second had by one of the victims, freakin' awesome...

Edited by TheJP
SPELLIN IS GEWD

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And now you can see it :D

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNKDrMtd2f0&feature=g-upl

 

I was "fortunate" enough to get flanked, in what was a PRETTY epic manuever, by the guy who DID film it, since, afterwards Hammy's famous line to everyone's favorite Kilroy was "Dude! You shoulda seen it! I coulda been on Mako TV!"

 

I got him to send me the footage, which he also included on his video on vimeo, but I threw up just our clip on our youtube channel as well.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...