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AMS Forums set to ARCHIVE MODE (POSTING DISABLED). These forums will be used for historical reference, otherwise you can find the AMS event pages located on Facebook.
snakejawz

Rifle Question: M14 or M16 for range

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i currently have a G&G stubby M4 for CQB but i am at heart a sniper. I dont feel fully committed to a single shot sniper but would like to get a good ranged automatic or dmr.

 

M14

 

pros:

very long barrel and full length stock, sturdy and very good accuracy.

i absolutely love this gun.

 

cons:

it's heavy, 9lbs, and not parts or mag compatible with my current gun.

no RIS system for adding mods. mags hang off bottom of gun.

 

 

M16

 

pros:

good length barrel, long 4x RIS rails on some models, good accuracy and parts/mag compatible with my current equipment. (and most of my squads)

 

cons:

they are ugly and awkwardly shaped, laying prone sniping is much less comfortable than with M14 or dragunov though this can be somewhat mitigated with the shorter mags.

 

 

my heart is set on a m14 with a wood stock (or maybe a dragunov), but my brain says i should go with something that's more functional.

 

Opinions?

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M14 all the way. I'm a hug fan of the G&G/CA family of M14's. I just sold a G&G M14 SOCOM that was great I just didn't use it much. I still sport a CA M14 DMR that's shooting ~485fps and is way more accurate than my old KWA SR12 DMR ever was. I think it's much easier to get good performance out of M14's for the DMR role than M series. Plus the G&G hybrid V7 gearbox is a TANK! It will handle literally anything you can throw at it.

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I have had really good experiences with most M14 airsoft replicas produced. All seem to be of solid build quality, and perform well. That being said, I am a sucker for a tricked out M16 SPR. In my opinion they are the epitome of sexy ar builds. An m16 would offer many more customization options, and is easier to trade mags amongst a squad.

 

As far as performance, in airsoft you basically pay for something you like the looks of, then make it perform how you want. Airsoft weapons are all the same caliber, so theoretically you can make them all ballistically equal. I say that to say this, buy what you think looks best, then make it perform how you want to. I have a friend in CO that runs a modified Kalash as a DMR. It pushes 490 and has been modified to semi auto only. Still runs the same mags, same length as a standard AK, but has been tuned to DMR status. Good luck.

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I love my M14. It's a Cyma Cm032 and it really is a tank. It performs amazingly well fully upgraded, although it has always performed exceptionally well. Throw a bipod on it and, when combined with the short mag, will prevent any dragging or awkwardness which seemed to be a concern of yours. Also, scope mounts are cheap and so are bipods so, you don't really need a RIS. Just know that DM's will take a lot of money and time for exceptional performance.

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Well boys hope I don't piss anybody off with this. AR platform is the way to go and I'll tell you why. Parts you can take a AR/M16 and you got whatever you need. Now if we are talking real steel I would say the M14 but 6mm is the same coming from both. Now my reasons 1. Gear box, 2. Body fully upgradeable 3. For me this is a big one. Mags. What I mean is this being on a team mags are a big deal. I know some of you may have run dry on ammo. My team when we start to run dry we just get mags off of 1 of our team mates. We all run m4's same bb's same mags. That's just how we roll out. That AR/M16 works so good no need to have anything else. Now we do run support guns but 90-95% are AR platforms. Now we do have a mod.700 sniper but that's just Reaper's deal he's our sniper.

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Well boys hope I don't piss anybody off with this. AR platform is the way to go and I'll tell you why. Parts you can take a AR/M16 and you got whatever you need. Now if we are talking real steel I would say the M14 but 6mm is the same coming from both. Now my reasons 1. Gear box, 2. Body fully upgradeable 3. For me this is a big one. Mags. What I mean is this being on a team mags are a big deal. I know some of you may have run dry on ammo. My team when we start to run dry we just get mags off of 1 of our team mates. We all run m4's same bb's same mags. That's just how we roll out. That AR/M16 works so good no need to have anything else. Now we do run support guns but 90-95% are AR platforms. Now we do have a mod.700 sniper but that's just Reaper's deal he's our sniper.

 

Some valid points there, D-Train. However, the whole may thing kinda goes down the drain when you as the DM have your gun set to shoot .28's or higher and you rifleman team mates are likely to be shooting .25's or less. Your rifleman team mates are also likely to be using 30rd stule mags that are likely to make an M series 'monopod' when in the prone position. Also, as a DM if you've ran out of ammo all o the sudden, you're shooting way too much and aren't really grasping the role of the designated marksman completely. On the parts, you are correct when it comes to the TM clones which are true V7's and need special gears and everything. The G&G and CA's on the other hand use mostly standard V2/3 parts. In fact the CA even uses a standard AR latch unlike the G&G. G&G's come stock with o-ring air nozzles, so that part is not necessary to change. G&G hopup units are also metal and seal well so again, no need to worry about parts. ASGI sell a G&G factory double o-ring stainless cylinder head and ported aluminum piston head and piston for pretty cheap. So with the G&G a lot of the normal M14 faults are mon-exhistant.

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Naw we all shoot 28's better range. But it's just how we do it. Our DMR we use 36's but in a jam we will run 28's.

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I'm really loving this awesome feedback guys!

 

i had my eye on the CM032 but really wanted to lay hands on it and talk to some guys who ran with it.

it just seems like a 9lb gun is gonna wear and tear on me, but then again i need to get in better shape.

 

as for the mags, the issue is somewhat mitigated as my backup gun is a stubby G&G raider which uses standard M4 mags and 0.25's

I plan to modify it with the super short tank style barrel, no stock and a single point mount. already have the batteries in a slimline peq box. basically a suped up machine pistol similar to a MP5.

 

as for the M14 i plan to shoot it stock for a few events, maybe with a fold-up bipod and find a way to mount my ris 2x power red-dot to it. eventually i want to disable full auto and add a M120 spring to get it up to 450fps or so, higher fps is limited in most of our local games.

 

as for running dry, i have made a bunch of pvc grenades that hold ~450rnds each and carry 4-6 on me during long games.

i've never run dry since i started doing this.

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i had my eye on the CM032 but really wanted to lay hands on it and talk to some guys who ran with it.

it just seems like a 9lb gun is gonna wear and tear on me, but then again i need to get in better shape.

 

The CM032 is SUPER light weight. As in maybe 5-6lbs loaded. The G&G is a little heavier, but not by much. You're probably going to be crowding the 10lb mark with most DMR's due to the scopes and such. I believe my CA M14 DMR weighs around 9lbs with it loaded and a silencer attached, but it still weighs WAY less than my old KWA SR12 DMR I had. You may want to look into the G&P M14 DMR. It's a TM clone, so mags are gonna be cheap and easy to find. It will have a G&P 7mm gearbox with G&P internals. The gun is set into an OD or tan M25 sniper stock with adjustable length of pull and an adjustable cheeck piece. It's also got a RIS already installed and comes with a 3.5-10 40mm scope for less than $400. All you would really have to do is upraised the spring later and your DMR would be complete.

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I think m130 mite work better mite be hot at 1st but should break in and come down to about 430-450.

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I agree with the m130,a little hot at first but with a few heavy games it will loosen up

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An M130 is a good place to start if you don't want to throw in a bore up kit.

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Interesting conversation going on here :P Why wasn't I invited? But, it kind of depends on how you want to role, as its been said. Most of your range will come from your hop up system, and the accuracy will come from a combination of the consistency of the fps(up and down) and hop up (all directions). The key isnt just to get a high power, but, to consistently HIT that power and no deviate much from it. If you only have a effective range of 175 feet but you KNOW you will hit there every time, you will be a lot better off than the guy with the 550 fps l337 sniper rifle. *shrug* Then again, im a range in numbers kinda guy, so i prefer accurate and high RoF(talking 40-50) but around 350 fps. For hop up consistency, I'd take a m14 over a AR platform unless you know what you are doing.

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M14. Hop Up design is the main reason it gets great range even in stock form.

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taking alot of this feedback to heart.

 

one person recommended a CYMA CM032 and i've seen a ton of very positive reviews of this particular model.

i had already been strongly considering this gun myself.

seems it is very rugged and a large percentage of the gun is metal (everything except the stock basically)

 

any comments from people who have shot it?

 

if i had more money i would invest in a G&G m14, but at nearly double the cost is it worth it for a casual player?

 

also saw an AGM MP008, comes with extra mag and scope and other goodies, but base gun doesn't seem as well made.

 

Echo1 also makes a M14 in the 200ish dollar range that comes out of the factory right at 400fps and is rated extremely highly.

:EDIT: apparently the echo1 is just a slightly upgraded version of the cm032 and the newer cm032 has the same upgrades already done to it.

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Echo1 is what I was going to say. Now it is heavy. But it is a damn good gun. They make 1 with rails on it out of the box. We had 1 but we got a way from the M14 for the AR platform. In the long run it was cheaper. Parts,pouches,mags,hop ups,slings,and such. To set it up right. But it will shoot hard and long. We as a team SEISOPS spend a lot of money on our guns and just want the most bang for the buck. A good AR platform may cost about 210-240 to get it up to a good DMR IS about 100 dollars more and all of the stuff you my have for your current AR or M4 will work with it. And as posted on here before you will be inter changeable with your team mates as well. As a team we run 28s for us they fly a lot more constant at a greater range. Now for a good DMR they will be a little light but in a crunch you can make shots with a little tune on the hop up. But is totally up to you. But this is a good topic. I hope what I have posted save you money and time.

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I run the cm032, and it's phenomenal. Absolutely 0 wobble anywhere, extremely durable, and a rail mount is like $16. For my DMR I have done the following:

 

Spring guide

Reshim

Relube

M120

O ring air nozzle

Compression mods

High torque motor

Correct aoe/sorbo

MOSFET

 

Accuracy:

Barrel polish and clean (the stock is a 6.04, actually became less accurate when I dropped in a tightbore)

New hop up unit (I effed mine up messing around)

Flat hopped systema rubber w/ custom flat nub

Floss mod

Barrel stabilization

 

Other mods:

I attached a spare rail onto the forward part of the stock and attached a grip pod

3-9*40 optic

Effective combat range is about 250 ft (indoors, idk)

Deans plugs

 

 

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Also, Cyma is the OEM for the echo 1 m14, so you're not getting anything extra for that extra money you spend- they're identical. The new cyma's also come stock with a great high torque motor- SHS equivalent. With a mosfet and 11.1 you'll be great, i highly recommend putting dielectric on the contcts to prevent oxidation. I would not recommend replacing the motor (if you get the blue endbell high torque type) because the motor cage/gearbox are designed to handle only Cyma motors without modifications to the motor cage.

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*shrug* i prefer r hop, but, whatever works i suppose. I dont understand the di eletric grease, because once the mosfet is in the system, there is such little current going through the trigger, it wont arc anymore.

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The way I see it when it comes to the dialectric grease is that it hurts nothing, and just is an extra step to preventing the trigger from corroding, ESPECIALLY before the mosfet's in.

 

I have heard amazing things about your prowess at r hop install, and maybe one day I'll be that good and will drop one in the m14, but for myself, on a gun like the m14 that takes quite some time to disassemble to the hop unit, the level of precision I require from an r hop would simply be too ridiculous in terms of how long it takes to fine tune and sand at my skill level (seriously, the m14 takes forever to get to the hop up), and I have that flat hop tuned just right...

 

 

Also, OP, if rails and customization are of concern to you, you may want to check out the new CYMA EBR. It's the same great performing m14, but with a fully railed, full metal ebr body that is really beautiful to behold. Just my .02

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The way I see it when it comes to the dialectric grease is that it hurts nothing, and just is an extra step to preventing the trigger from corroding, ESPECIALLY before the mosfet's in.

 

I have heard amazing things about your prowess at r hop install, and maybe one day I'll be that good and will drop one in the m14, but for myself, on a gun like the m14 that takes quite some time to disassemble to the hop unit, the level of precision I require from an r hop would simply be too ridiculous in terms of how long it takes to fine tune and sand at my skill level (seriously, the m14 takes forever to get to the hop up), and I have that flat hop tuned just right...

 

 

Also, OP, if rails and customization are of concern to you, you may want to check out the new CYMA EBR. It's the same great performing m14, but with a fully railed, full metal ebr body that is really beautiful to behold. Just my .02

I wouldn't exactly say I am awesome at R-Hop installs, I've got people in UTC to do that ;). Not that it is that hard TBH.

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the cyma ebr is really a thing of beauty, dont see many silver style guns. that's just freaking sexy.

only real detractor is the socom length barrel and not the full 500mm+ inner barrel.

 

So some things to keep in mind, i just finished modifying my G&G M4 to a SMG style gun, very fun to strap to your hip and run around with. i plan on making a smg modified holster to carry this on my leg as a backup gun, possibly on my back with a 2pt sling.

it supports all the standard m4 mags and ris mods i could want for now.

 

i plan on doing very little initial modification to the M14, the EBR does look like it would be straight awesome right out of the box.

 

but im in love with the wood tone ww2/vietnam era stocks. can't put my finger on it but they just "feel" right.

i really like the clean lines of a single purpose weapon.

i can't stand people who run around with a M4 + M203 + PEQ + TAC light + Laser + w/e else that can RIS mount.

it looks stupid.

example: http://www.airsoftmegastore.com/PhotoGallery.asp?ProductCode=PATRIOT-002&PhotoNumber=2

 

i plan on getting the top rail for my 4x scope and the front mini-rail for a small bipod but that's about all the external mods i plan to do.

keep the gun mission focused, if i need a door-kicker, then i'll use my m4.

 

not trying to sound biased, but i prefer to use the weapon as it was designed.

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What's wrong with that gun it's cool..........lol. You are 100% right. Like you said I like a door kicker to be just that. And I still want to get that r-hop. Need to check that out for myself. If it's half as good as I have heard then I'm sold.

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I have used M16 variants from the full length M16 with an M209 attached to an M4A1 with a retractable stock. I have also used M14 variants from the Socom 16 to the weighty metal monster to a real wood M14 with RIS to an M14 Scout. There is no way to compare them. They each have their place. I found out that I am not one of "America's Greatest Generation" because I can't carry a real wood M14 with RIS all day in the heat and be effectve. I also found out that in wooded areas it is not friendly. In other instances I found a stock Marui M14 to be an amazing weapon that enabled me to cut down many players who could not reach me. The short M4A1 is a handy weapon in the woods, and can be carried all day on the move. That is the value of plastic.

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