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Oakley111

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They are awesome. Would love to see these in play at ops like bh to disable PoV's. There'd be no denying a hit and the chalk wipes right off.

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If you want to play paintball there are already plenty of places to do so.  

How is that even a relevant statement? What does this have to do with paintball? Furthermore, why do we have to bag on our brightly colored not-so-milsim cousins?

 

These grenades look awesome. They solve a problem I've always had with vehicle play at large games (milsim or not) which is guaranteeing hit calling.

 

It's not even that vehicle hitshrugging is intentional, but there are lots of distractions that come with the pucker-factor of vehicle enhanced combat simulations. this gives you a way to guaranteed prove you hit someone, without relying on an unrealistic "you can only hit it from the front, or exactly on this tiny metal plate" scenario.

 

some of Taginn's other products worry me, as i live in a state with a pretty frequent dry weather problem, but these look positively awesome.

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What does this have to do with paintball?  

 

I am not even going to answer that.  

 

Nobody is bagging on them, just saying that if you want to go make a mess out of other peoples stuff there is already a sport to go do that in.  

 

Vehicle hit calling is as simple as "hey man, we hit you over there" followed by "Ok, no prob"  

 

Anything else is because you are playing with wankers and making a chalk powder mess is not going to change any of that.  

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Guest Specs

I'm personally a fan of these if they were put to use in large scale, vehicle-heavy AO's like BH. 

 

On the paintball note, I have to disagree here. It would significantly reduce arguments between players and save admins time. If anyone is planning to bring a vehicle that can't take scratches, plings, and a coat of chalk that can easily be washed off, they shouldn't be fielding that vehicle honestly...

 

I'm interested in seeing the distance these can achieve vs. the standard foam ball or rocket. (which are hardly realistic either.) But as far as these used against people, no way. 

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Wash off? You can pull off your dead rag and dust it off. According to aswayze, all pov operators at bh must have been wankers. It's not always easy to see your vehicle get hit or to hear someone say hey, buddy I hit your truck while driving. And AMS has already given these the green light!

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Anything else is because you are playing with wankers and making a chalk powder mess is not going to change any of that.  

 

I think that kind of thinking doesn't help anyone, but everyone's entitled to their own opinion, so I won't fault you for yours.

 

as specs and parks already pointed out, this facilitates speed of play and speed of return after an admin debate.

 

assuming nobody is going to question a hit because it's a game of honor is like assuming i can leave my door unlocked because breaking into houses is illegal.

 

 

The reality is, arguments do happen, and while I think people arguing CAN be wankers, it doesn't mean they all are, using these allows everyone to, as you put it, go "Ok, sure thing." and call their hits. vehicle hits are much trickier than the average bb-to-player scenario.

 

and as for the making a mess part, if you're that worried about getting your POV dirty, maybe you shouldn't bring the POV.

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I know a thing or two about using vehicles in games, I have been running a VERY vehicle intensive event for nearly a decade now.  If there is ANY debate at all from vehicle operators about hits then they are wankers.  This is not opinion, it is absolute fact.  If this is an issue then Admins should be kicking POVs out.   If this was an issue at East Wind the first offense would probably see the vehicle booted for 24 - 48 hours, second offense and it would be done for the rest of the event and not allowed back.  This is a sport of honor and if honor is an issue than it is the duty of all of us to remedy the situation.   Pandering to asswipes does not help.  

 

I am obviously not worried about damaging any of my vehicles, I routinely drive them through things that 90% of you would not imagine a vehicle can go through.   

 

I also put up with the mess that marking rounds make on my vehicles every year when I drive as an admin at the OK D-Day paintball event just helping out.   Guess who has to clean that crap up?  NOT the guys making the mess that's for certain.   Don't think chalk makes a mess?  Then I guess you won't mind me dumping a cup of chalk in your cars interior right?  

 

If this round was the answer to a problem we had, I would be all about it but it isn't.  It's just marking/paintball.  If we need that then we shouldn't be playing airsoft at all.  

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I think they are a great idea.  Easy to mark a hit POV, easy to mark a building, easy to fire into a room.  

I like the fact that its dry chalk.  

If getting a POV interior chalky, or getting it on your gear is something that would make you mad....   then you're a pussy and in the wrong place.

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Again it is easy to talk shit when it is someone else's kit that you are talking about making a mess of.   You are not going to make a mess out of any of my trucks with chalk dust 203 rounds because no matter what the rules are, I will not EVER regard a truck as an armored vehicle and if I am in 203 range than I have almost certainly already been killed by rifle fire anyhow so it's a moot point to me.   Aside from that, none of my trucks have interiors but again that is not the point... 

 

The MAIN point of this is that if you think you have a problem that requires marking POVs then what about hit calling on foot soldiers?   Seems like we have an increasing quantity of bulletproof noobs in this sport so should we not just switch over to a marking round so we can avoid admin problems with them as well?  

 

Hard to get enough marking material into a 6mm ball so how about we switch to a bigger projectile?  I propose 68mm...  

 

Now that we are using marking rounds we should look at easier to clean uniforms for everyone so we should look at shiny spandex spider man suits for everyone.  

 

Good news is there is money in ammo sales now so event promoters can now focus entirely and completely on trigger time since the more rounds that are fired the more money we make!  

 

Woo hoo!  

 

It's paintball time.  

 

 

 

If you need marking, then there is a root problem that needs to be addressed.  Marking rounds will not solve the root problem.   Fix the root problem instead.  

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Aswayze, I think you're fishing here.


I had ZERO issues with player hit calling at BH3. I had One issue with player hit calling at BH2. It's been a while, but I remember very few incidents of the same at BH1. This is just a recollection of AMS events.

One thing I've had at all three of these events (and others I've played with POV's involved) is issues getting vehicles to call hits, or games using rules not conducive to proper vehicle engagement tactics, because, it was hard to get vehicles to call hits. I'm sorry, but it's unrealistic to me (more so than it is unrealistic to wear your "shiny spandex spiderman suits") that I can only kill a vehicle with a hit to a small 3 inch square on the front of the POV.

A marking round solves that problem, because if the driver doesn't hear the impact and call hit, all it takes is 5 seconds with an admin to show him the chalk hit, and he goes "oh, okay man. cool, we'll drive back to respawn". now, instead of HAVING to rely on other players to enforce the douchebagery within themselves, you give no room for error. I don't see how this is a bad thing. And I fail to understand why you are so against it?



Also: I'm not understanding your hatred of paintball here, and I think you're making some pretty crass generalizations about people who play paintball. I played paintball for many years before I got into airsoft. Not once did i wear these shiny spandex spiderman suits, in fact, alot of the gear I used was similar to the same gear I use to play airsoft with today. the weapons change. the projectiles changed. but the events I attended had no focus on trigger time so the promoter made more money, and spandex was nowhere in sight. sure, those things DO exist in paintball, but it's not the whole picture, and I think your generalization of the sport not only harms your argument against these chalk marking rounds, but in my opinion, harms the sport of airsoft as well. it's an old outdated style of thinking, and is our sport's equivalent to trying to mate by beating our chosen mate over the head with a stick. We got past that, I think we can get past hating paintball, because just like me, these paintballers may one day be the next generation of airsofters.



Either way, it's irrelevant, clearly the majority supports the use of these chalk marking rounds. It's not because they are needed, if they were needed, that would mean POV's couldn't be used at all without them, which is simply not the case. People support these items because they make the game better. Don't we all just wanna make the game better?

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Ok, good argument there, I suppose that the chalk mark might be pointed out by someone further down the road if the driver did not notice which would work out better.  

 

I do not hate paintball.  I just have ZERO interest in personally doing paintball.  I am around it plenty since I make it a point to help out with larger paintball event when I can but the number 1 thing I get personally out of all of this is that what I see there should serve as a warning of the direction that we DO NOT want airsoft to go.  I am glad paintball is here, I just do not want to do it.   I ONLY care about milsim and the general themes of both approaches seem to be very much at odds.  

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I do not understand why cheating, and "game of honor" is always the first reasons behind doing or not doing, or liking or not liking a particular product, rule, or concept.   Its asinine.  

The benefit of this particular product is simple...  IT MARKS STUFF.  It makes life easier, it makes an admins job easier, and it makes persuing concepts that in the past, were difficult or impossible to do.  

For example, using a marking 203 round, one could easily "destroy" a building.  Once a structure is hit with whatever certain number of rounds...  the building is destroyed.  This would add depth, and increase the importance of target selection and roles within the OP.

 

I can understand your thought of not wanting to use "paintball stuff", and i agree with you mostly.  I fucking hate paintball.  I used to watch my little brother run around in neon orange clothes, baseball sliding into greasy airbags covered in nasty ass paint, and the whole place smelled like week old Mexican food.  But in this particular case, I see these things as a benefit.  

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As a firefighter I deal with many people daily, most of them under the most stress they've ever experienced. I've found that the sort of person who might argue a nerf rocket hit is likely not very reasonable at that moment and typically doesn't go "Aww, damn, my bad" once faced with evidence. With the stress on and the adrenaline pumping people just. Can't. Be. wrong.

I think the point Aswayze was trying to make is that POV operators should be held to a standard at an event like this, partially due to how high profile they are (everybody sees and notices them drive by) but mostly because they are driving a potentially deadly truck really close to other people. If a POV operator is petty or asinine or just plain stressed enough by airsoft to get into an argument about whether their vehicle is hit then they should not be operating a POV at any event, let alone one with as much going on as AMS events typically do.

I recall it being in the AMS rules that if you are told you got hit YOU TAKE THE HIT, regardless of whether you think you got hit or if it was fair or whatever. There is zero room for argument in the rule set. Failure to do so is an admin issue and should result in you getting booted from the event, especially if you are in a giant easy-to-locate-and-identify vehicle as opposed to one more airsofter who could blend into the crowd.

I feel that adding a hit marking system is going to cause more issues with non-marking nerf or 203 rounds. After all, it didn't leave a mark, so how do I know I got hit? Either deal with that or ban non marking projectiles. It's the same fight in paintball with the guys that don't call it if it doesn't break. If your rules are set on marking as the standard, then anything less won't get counted. In the end you build your rule set to the guys you WANT to see attend, and you deal immediately with those that won't conform.

So without the intentional hit shrugging guys, that leaves the legitimately-didn't-see-it crowd. I don't know how much credence I give this excuse as very rarely is it a vehicle with just a driver cruising around, and if there are more people then their eyes are out 360 degrees so they don't get toasted on the way to the fight. One of them will see the hit, and if honest will tell the driver. Either way running down an admin to have him look at a chalk mark on that truck is no faster or more efficient than running down an admin to tell him you killed that truck and he didn't stop.

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As a firefighter I deal with many people daily, most of them under the most stress they've ever experienced. I've found that the sort of person who might argue a nerf rocket hit is likely not very reasonable at that moment and typically doesn't go "Aww, damn, my bad" once faced with evidence. With the stress on and the adrenaline pumping people just. Can't. Be. wrong.

 

I think the point Aswayze was trying to make is that POV operators should be held to a standard at an event like this, partially due to how high profile they are (everybody sees and notices them drive by) but mostly because they are driving a potentially deadly truck really close to other people. If a POV operator is petty or asinine or just plain stressed enough by airsoft to get into an argument about whether their vehicle is hit then they should not be operating a POV at any event, let alone one with as much going on as AMS events typically do.

 

I recall it being in the AMS rules that if you are told you got hit YOU TAKE THE HIT, regardless of whether you think you got hit or if it was fair or whatever. There is zero room for argument in the rule set. Failure to do so is an admin issue and should result in you getting booted from the event, especially if you are in a giant easy-to-locate-and-identify vehicle as opposed to one more airsofter who could blend into the crowd.

 

I feel that adding a hit marking system is going to cause more issues with non-marking nerf or 203 rounds. After all, it didn't leave a mark, so how do I know I got hit? Either deal with that or ban non marking projectiles. It's the same fight in paintball with the guys that don't call it if it doesn't break. If your rules are set on marking as the standard, then anything less won't get counted. In the end you build your rule set to the guys you WANT to see attend, and you deal immediately with those that won't conform.

 

So without the intentional hit shrugging guys, that leaves the legitimately-didn't-see-it crowd. I don't know how much credence I give this excuse as very rarely is it a vehicle with just a driver cruising around, and if there are more people then their eyes are out 360 degrees so they don't get toasted on the way to the fight. One of them will see the hit, and if honest will tell the driver. Either way running down an admin to have him look at a chalk mark on that truck is no faster or more efficient than running down an admin to tell him you killed that truck and he didn't stop.

A. Sportsmanship is expected! Please call YOUR OWN hits!

DO NOT BOTHER TO CALL ANOTHER PLAYERS HITS – MIND YOUR OWN HITS!.

 

That is directly from the ams rule set. We don't call each other's hits. And the pov rules do not mention this.

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