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Engagement distances, overshooting, revenge shooting

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With guns being made much hotter straight out of the box than they were when I came into the game in 2001, should engagement distances be lengthened? Obviously, you're not going to prevent every close encounter of the unforeseen kind, but I'm seeing guys leaving games bleeding like crazy more often recently. Getting hit is part of the game, we all know that coming in, but let's face it, all or most of us also have to go back to work or school Monday morning. Do we really want to go in looking like we've contracted killer alien measles? 

The other thing I'm seeing a LOT of (at least in my area, East TN) is overshooting. Nothing causes more problems on our field than some individual who won't give a player the chance to get his dead rag out before they decide to keep on shooting. Tempers flare, and I suspect it's only going to be a matter of time before there's a fight. We have a lot of vegetation, and sometimes hearing is difficult over multiple guns, but that's not always the case. Occasionally, a hit player will also get entangled in the thorns and brush, making it tough to get to the rag or extract himself timely. How does AMS handle this? 

Lastly, what I think is perhaps the most dishonorable act on the field: revenge shooting. There are always those GI Joe, Sgt. Rock, Rambo, "I never miss what I shoot at" mother so-and-sos who think that every time they aim their weapon at someone, they get a hit. When the guy on the other end doesn't give them their way, they will literally empty magazine after magazine into this player thinking they're somehow teaching them a lesson. (What they're really doing is setting themselves up to get butt-stroked by an understandably irate player, which I'd like to avoid.) What part of "this is a game of honor" do they not understand? If you're firing into a clump of thick brush (at least on our field) your chances of actually hitting someone concealed behind it aren't real high. If you hit someone, 99% of the time, they're going to tell you. There are not cheaters hiding behind every rock or blade of grass just waiting to rob you of a kill. There's no need to revenge shoot people. To do so impugns their honor. Do these people somehow believe in the legend of their own mind that only they have honor? Can they not conceive of the fact that they missed or their BBs deflected away? Personally, revenge shooters should be given a free pass to the parking lot and the rest of the day off until they mature enough to realize the immaturity of their actions. If that takes a week's suspension or more, sobeit, but it needs to stop. 

Several years ago (maybe 8-10) at a field in New England, there was such an incident that resulted in a hockey-style team brawl. Some of you may recall it, I only heard about it. Nothing makes the sport look worse in the eyes of the public than the cops pulling up at your field because of a brawl. If we don't police the game, it will become disreputable. 



 

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Thank you for sharing your thoughts.  Current minimum engagement distance is 0 feet, with no safeties.  There are a slew of threads on this subject, if you want to dig through the forums.

 

Dealing with grumpy players is part of the game.  I have had to pull players aside and ask them to calm down, and usually they do.  Admins get a call otherwise.

 

I typically try and revenge shoot JP in the butt at every op I attend, but for the life of me I can't remember what he did.  Anyone else that does this is obviously a douche canoe, but I can't think of when I have ever seen it happen.

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400 fps 0 foot MED does not hurt

 

^ That.

 

Overshooting happens.  It happens less if everyone runs semi auto!!!   :o 

 

I dont see a lot of "revenge shooting", however if someone isnt calling hits, or has a well known history of hit shrugging...  expect that they will take several extra shots.

 

But, in the situation that you described, whomever "empties their magazine" deserves whatever they get. :o

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Sometimes temper get out of hand it just happens unfortunately.

 

Over shooting happens and years ago while I was digging my dead rag out I was in that position and I was pissed and my buddies were pissed but after cooling off and talking to the guy we realized that he didn't know I was hit and couldn't hear me. Now when I'm shot and I don't need to worry about medics I just pull my dead rag as I am walking off and I don't worry about being over shot because it usually doesn't happen while I am walking away.

 

If people have top be such an idiot to over shoot because they are mad then they don't need to be on the field and the refs need to be notified and they need to have the balls to do something about it. I had to make a guy leave the field Sunday because he got mad, shit happens.

 

Minimum engagement distances are fine as long as you follow them, under 20 ft should be a parlay or a safety kill, 20 ft= 350 fps, 40 ft= 400 fps, 60 ft and over are higher fps guns and 100 ft for 500 fps and over.

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I have no problem with there being no MED, so long as I don't get popped in the face. Or the ear. Man, the ear is a bitch. I understand that sometimes accidents happen when someone comes over a hill but I try to remain conscious of a man's center mass so I don't shoot out his tooth. I also understand that sometimes the only thing to shoot at is a guy's face because that's all he's giving me to shoot at. At the same time, I understand that's all I've given plenty of people to shoot at as well and in doing so I have to be an adult and realize that I might take one to the grill. Also, this is why I rock a helmet. It doesn't hurt to get shot in the bean anymore. In most situations though, it isn't an issue. I've generally always had a clear shot at the body if I'm close enough to have to worry about MED. 

 

Semi-auto rules vastly decrease the chance of getting lit-up or "taught a lesson." I wasn't keen on the rule when they announced it, but after BH3, I was sold. It's a great idea and one I hope more events start to implement. 

 

If you're worried about a little welt on Monday, all I can say is man up. Chicks dig war wounds brah. Tell em' you got it 'Nam. 

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Guest Specs

To add to everyone else's points:

 

1. While guns may be shooting hotter, AMS FPS limits are the same for a reason. Downgrading is something we must all be familiar with.

2. Overshooting can occasionally become an issue, but most guys in the milsim and AMS communities are pretty tame on trigger time. It comes down to how fast you can pull your dead rag really, so keep it in a place that's easily accessible, even with gloved hands. I like to keep mine in the bottom of my dump pouch or between my PC and chest.

3. Revenge shooting doesn't seem to be much of an issue. I've never had a guy waltz on over to me and pop a few shots at me out of anger or spite. I'd say that's due to the great sportsmanship we have in this community. 

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Guest Jarrado

We typically play 450fps in MS with a 0ft MED. As long as your teeth, ears, temple/forehead (arteries) and eyes are 100% protected, the possibility of serious injury from a BB is basically zero. That said, I've had to dig out more than 1 bb. This does not bother me that much as we have a semi auto rule for 20ft or closer and most people will take a surrender. To date we have had 0 serious injuries I know of in the state.

 

As far as overshooting, in the past I ran a SAW (490fps). With that thing going full auto next to your face, you can't even here your buddy 10ft away, much less some poor sap 150ft away yelling at me to stop shooting in his direction. What he doesn't realize, is that there are LIVE op4 to his 4-7 o'clock that are attracting my fire. At this point, he should sit down and let me direct fire. Alot of overshooting is simply this, though I have seen some players (typically younger new guys) get very trigger happy.

I'm not even familiar with revenge shooting. I've never seen a good example in my state to know what this means. Would purposefully shooting a player in the tender spots be considered revenge shooting if the said target was arguing in the open about who he did or didn't hit in my threat range?

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I used to run a SAW, and I could not hear people yelling "HIT".  Our SOP used to be to raise your hand first, and then pull out your dead rag.  Visual signals are the best way to communicate to the guy shooting you.  It's sometimes frustrating, but then again, the point of the game is to be shot.

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Guest Specs

I used to run a SAW, and I could not hear people yelling "HIT".  Our SOP used to be to raise your hand first, and then pull out your dead rag.  Visual signals are the best way to communicate to the guy shooting you.  It's sometimes frustrating, but then again, the point of the game is to be shot.

This is also my usual method of calling hit. Though it's important to note where your hand is raising. I'll shamefully admit to raising my "I'm hit" hand into a squad mates fire right next to me. Hurt like hell considering he was 3 feet from me...

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I used to run a SAW, and I could not hear people yelling "HIT".  Our SOP used to be to raise your hand first, and then pull out your dead rag.  Visual signals are the best way to communicate to the guy shooting you.  It's sometimes frustrating, but then again, the point of the game is to be shot.

This. I always raise my rifle straight up in the air by the butt stock to make it obvious I'm assuming a non-combat posture to signal I've been hit. 100% of the time it works 60% of the time. 

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As someone who's been shot in the face at about 5 ft with a rifle, I'm a fan of MEDs... I understand how impossible it is for a lot of cqb environments, bla bla bla. So, yes, I wear a lower face mask. I think it's an honorable thing to offer the safety under 20 ft (or however far) but I get it. ::shrug:: Doing away with all MEDs does seem lazy to me (and shortage of good admins makes this extraordinarily hard to enforce anyway). This is a game of honor and I think sometimes guys get so wrapped in their "operator" mindset they forget that it's a game. So cool down, try not to take those headshots at close distances, for godsakes aim for center mass if you're so badass, and don't be surprised when the person you shot in the face gets pissed off at you when they're covered in blood, lol. But you know... lol.

Overshooting happens... Just get that hand up and rag out quick as you can and plan on getting hit more than once.

And revenge shooting? Yeah. Prickish.
 

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