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AMS Forums set to ARCHIVE MODE (POSTING DISABLED). These forums will be used for historical reference, otherwise you can find the AMS event pages located on Facebook.
jonsteg

CoST Uniform Exceptions

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So I'm guessing that since CoST uses anything that resembles green BDUs, does that mean that my team and I are allowed to use Flecktarn camo?

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There is a very detailed list of allowed camo patterns on the event registration info page.

 

http://americanmilsim.com/forum/index.php?/topic/2599-operation-ironclad-registration-information/

 

 

So, any pattern not listed there is not allowed.  However, if enough people suggest that Flecktarn be added for future events, they might consider it.  That's how A-Tacs & Kryptek made the list.

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There is a very detailed list of allowed camo patterns on the event registration info page.

 

http://americanmilsim.com/forum/index.php?/topic/2599-operation-ironclad-registration-information/

 

 

So, any pattern not listed there is not allowed.  However, if enough people suggest that Flecktarn be added for future events, they might consider it.  That's how A-Tacs & Kryptek made the list.

Darn... all I can say, is that as a Southeastern Native (which is where the op is set, I'm from Georgia) Flecktarn is MADE for the type of environments of the Southeast, since the forests are very similar (vegetation-wise. NOT temperature wise) to Germany. It's a shame that it's not on the list :/ Thanks for clarifying that for me though.

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My team wanted to do the same and were told no flecktarn. Only the ones on the list. :(

Well, I guess that makes both of our teams. Hopefully they realize the struggle of getting some quality Flecktarn BDUs. My team is in the position where we spent all of our money, only to find out that the next op (this one) doesn't even allow Flecktarn... Talk about bad luck.

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I am sure that this question has been asked before by someone else in another thread about uniforms at Ironclad; but the squeeky wheel gets the grease. My squad usually runs German flecktarn and although it is NOT listed in the approved camouflages for AMS Ironclad at AO Shelby but I was wondering how many people wanting to use flecktarn would it take to make command reconsider permitting it?

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I am sure that this question has been asked before by someone else in another thread about uniforms at Ironclad; but the squeeky wheel gets the grease. My squad usually runs German flecktarn and although it is NOT listed in the approved camouflages for AMS Ironclad at AO Shelby but I was wondering how many people wanting to use flecktarn would it take to make command reconsider permitting it?

Well, my team so far is made up of 6 people (this is the core team. We usually get some other friends to tag along based on their skills). So combined with your team, Finch, maybe that could be enough to add flecktarn in?

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Guest Specs

Flecktarn is great, and would love to see it make the list. But as always, good ol' M81 is the safest bet for you CoST folk.  ^_^

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Flecktarn is great, and would love to see it make the list. But as always, good ol' M81 is the safest bet for you CoST folk.  ^_^

Sorry, but I need to be arrogant on this one. My team and I are trying to save money, and right now, we don't have any money to buy any new BDUs. Seriously though, what's so hard about adding a camo on the list? I mean it's green, right? Sorry if I sound like a whiner right now, but I'd rather try and do something about this before I go scraping the piggy banks to get camo for one operation.

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Sorry, but I need to be arrogant on this one. My team and I are trying to save money, and right now, we don't have any money to buy any new BDUs. Seriously though, what's so hard about adding a camo on the list? I mean it's green, right? Sorry if I sound like a whiner right now, but I'd rather try and do something about this before I go scraping the piggy banks to get camo for one operation.

Oh I know all about the money struggle. Had that concern when wanting to wear a tan top instead of getting an MC one. And I know we all need that money to make admission to the events and get the necessary gear. Unfortunately, I can't answer that concern regarding the easy-ness in adding camo's to the list. But I think it's an over-saturation issue. 

 

Consider that even with the amount of camo's we have on there now, there is a crazy number of complains on how difficult it is to ID team affiliation on the field. More than anything else, I'd wager it comes down to more camo's, more confusion. And ultimately, that makes it harder for the admins and staff to keep tabs on what's going on on the ground, which hinder's gameplay. Especially at the speed that gameplay can progress at times. 

 

Ultimately, it's the AMS staffs' call. Just be patient, and maybe they'll give the go ahead someday.

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Oh I know all about the money struggle. Had that concern when wanting to wear a tan top instead of getting an MC one. And I know we all need that money to make admission to the events and get the necessary gear. Unfortunately, I can't answer that concern regarding the easy-ness in adding camo's to the list. But I think it's an over-saturation issue. 

 

Consider that even with the amount of camo's we have on there now, there is a crazy number of complains on how difficult it is to ID team affiliation on the field. More than anything else, I'd wager it comes down to more camo's, more confusion. And ultimately, that makes it harder for the admins and staff to keep tabs on what's going on on the ground, which hinder's gameplay. Especially at the speed that gameplay can progress at times. 

 

Ultimately, it's the AMS staffs' call. Just be patient, and maybe they'll give the go ahead someday.

I guess that's what I'm going to have to do. Thanks for understanding at least. Hopefully the AMS staff DOES end up looking at this and deciding. But as you said, I'm just going to have to be patient right now.

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Sorry, but I need to be arrogant on this one. My team and I are trying to save money, and right now, we don't have any money to buy any new BDUs. Seriously though, what's so hard about adding a camo on the list? I mean it's green, right? Sorry if I sound like a whiner right now, but I'd rather try and do something about this before I go scraping the piggy banks to get camo for one operation.

Because when you allow one more pattern for this op then you'll add another to the next and the next till you have what happened very recently and have nearly every camo pattern on the list. This then makes what I consider a very expensive weekend game that's very loose fitting to Milsim. I personally would like to see less than what there is. I would like 2-3 patterns allowed per faction and that's it. Quite frankly if you can't go out and buy a ~$30 uniform from army surplus then you need to find a different event. Everyone should have a set of m81 and a set of 3dcu. That way you will almost run into no issues at any event you go to.

 

My. 02 cents

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Because when you allow one more pattern for this op then you'll add another to the next and the next till you have what happened very recently and have nearly every camo pattern on the list. This then makes what I consider a very expensive weekend game that's very loose fitting to Milsim. I personally would like to see less than what there is. I would like 2-3 patterns allowed per faction and that's it. Quite frankly if you can't go out and buy a ~$30 uniform from army surplus then you need to find a different event. Everyone should have a set of m81 and a set of 3dcu. That way you will almost run into no issues at any event you go to.

 

My. 02 cents

I'll toss my $0.20 in as well. 

I think green is green, tan is tan. I have a bigger issue with all the semi-green semi-tan patterns that cause confusion than how many patterns there are. And I don't want to run a big "expensive" event in $30 used crap camo. For basic camo you are looking at $100 min. Let teams wear their good team unis, as long as they are clearly green or tan.  Once you get beyond one pattern, the number does not matter for milsim-i-ness.

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I'll toss my $0.20 in as well. 

I think green is green, tan is tan. I have a bigger issue with all the semi-green semi-tan patterns that cause confusion than how many patterns there are. And I don't want to run a big "expensive" event in $30 used crap camo. For basic camo you are looking at $100 min. Let teams wear their good team unis, as long as they are clearly green or tan.  Once you get beyond one pattern, the number does not matter for milsim-i-ness.

Wow... well said... You definitely get a round of applause from me. Although I do respect Rebel's opinion, I also think why should we run around in $30 BDUs when you've already got a really nice set of BDUs that costed you $100 with shipping (My set of Flectarn costed about $150 with shipping because it came from the UK... it wasn't until recently that we found a supplier in the US that carried Flecktarn). Again, Zimm, well said. 

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This post just made my day. I understand its a milsim event, but I also totally agree that there are some patterns that you can't immediately identify as green or tan. I'd love to see a move for it to come down to if its mostly green, military style green of course not like a neon green lol, or if its predominantly tan, then it is permitted. Just my opinion on the matter, but at the end of the day, its not our choice. I will say that I am happy that kryptek has been approved, and maybe if demand continues flecktarn will make the list.

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I strongly disagree.  

 

Uniforms are called uniforms because the point is to be uniform.  

 

People go to serious milsim events so that they can do serious milsim.   Adding every pattern under the sky just makes teams look like a pack of soup sandwiches.  

 

You can get that at a regular airsoft game.  

 

Milsim is a step up.  If it is a step that is hard for everyone to make then that should be viewed as a good thing since a little exclusivity is something that this sport SERIOUSLY needs.  

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What countries use flecktarn?

Germany, Russia (sort of. They use their own version), Japan, Poland (if I remember correctly), Tibet (they made their own flecktarn camo before being occupied by China. They still use it today), and some other east asian nations. But to be honest, every country that is listed above have their own version of the camo, whether it be different colors or the amount of colors. But Germany is the best known country that uses Flecktarn because they invented it.

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I strongly disagree.  

 

Uniforms are called uniforms because the point is to be uniform.  

 

People go to serious milsim events so that they can do serious milsim.   Adding every pattern under the sky just makes teams look like a pack of soup sandwiches.  

 

You can get that at a regular airsoft game.  

 

Milsim is a step up.  If it is a step that is hard for everyone to make then that should be viewed as a good thing since a little exclusivity is something that this sport SERIOUSLY needs.  

Well call me a mercenary/ally then. Flecktarn can also be put under the Milsim category because it is used by the German armed forces. If I use Flecktarn camo, and use real military tactics, then I am being a Milsim airsoft player. And to further support my point: NATO (which INCLUDES Germany) fights along side the US in Afghanistan, so representing them here can't bring any harm to this event. And as you probably know, all of the soldiers fighting in Afghanistan don't use the same camo, because all of them aren't from America.

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So, one of the reasons that we don't just run "any green camo" or "any tan camo" is to keep the teams relatively uniform.  We feel that it adds to the overall experience, plus there are lots of other event groups that run camo restrictions.  Like previously stated the most common camo for CoST is US Woodland.  These uniforms can be had for about 30-40 dollars a set on ebay, and most likely can be found on local craigslist adds and garage sales.  Not to mention local military surplus stores.  Also the uniform requirements for AMS events haven't been a top secret piece of info.  I understand that you normally run the Flecktarn camo, but the regs have been posted for Ironclad and they will stand for the time being.  We're trying to get into the habit of not changing requirements after the event has been posted and opened for registration.  That doesn't mean that we won't consider it for a later event, but it also doesn't mean that we will allow it at a later event.  I hope that this won't discourage you from attending Ironclad but I felt that it was good to give you a reply so that there was plenty of time for you to make a decision on if you would attend or not.  For the time being Flecktarn is not on the list and it will not be allowed for Ironclad.  That being said, please keep the discussion going here so that we may reference it for later discussion.     

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So, one of the reasons that we don't just run "any green camo" or "any tan camo" is to keep the teams relatively uniform.  We feel that it adds to the overall experience, plus there are lots of other event groups that run camo restrictions.  Like previously stated the most common camo for CoST is US Woodland.  These uniforms can be had for about 30-40 dollars a set on ebay, and most likely can be found on local craigslist adds and garage sales.  Not to mention local military surplus stores.  Also the uniform requirements for AMS events haven't been a top secret piece of info.  I understand that you normally run the Flecktarn camo, but the regs have been posted for Ironclad and they will stand for the time being.  We're trying to get into the habit of not changing requirements after the event has been posted and opened for registration.  That doesn't mean that we won't consider it for a later event, but it also doesn't mean that we will allow it at a later event.  I hope that this won't discourage you from attending Ironclad but I felt that it was good to give you a reply so that there was plenty of time for you to make a decision on if you would attend or not.  For the time being Flecktarn is not on the list and it will not be allowed for Ironclad.  That being said, please keep the discussion going here so that we may reference it for later discussion.     

Well there goes my argument...

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I strongly disagree.  

 

Uniforms are called uniforms because the point is to be uniform.  

 

People go to serious milsim events so that they can do serious milsim.   Adding every pattern under the sky just makes teams look like a pack of soup sandwiches.  

 

You can get that at a regular airsoft game.  

 

Milsim is a step up.  If it is a step that is hard for everyone to make then that should be viewed as a good thing since a little exclusivity is something that this sport SERIOUSLY needs.  

I could see this if events went pure team patterns - everybody in 1981 Woodland, etc. But once you allow 2, the illusion is lost. Again, to me, faded ATAC is a problem. Flecktarn, Splinter, Russian, etc., is cool as long as I know which team you are on.  

 

As for "serious milsim" you could look at this as pretty real. ANA troops where different patterns than US. Brits wear different patterns than US. Heck, in Iraq the "Collation of the Willing" put 49 camo patterns on the ground in Iraq (excluding duplication of course).

 

So perhaps seeing so many patters is as close as some of us (me included) will get to the color of real mil-sim.

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Remember, there are always a few guys who want camo pattern "X" added but there are always a LOT more guys who want a milsim event when they travel to a milsim.  

 

Uniformity is milsim.  

 

And don't forget Denmark, they use Flectarn too.  

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Let me also add that there's not reason to not bring up questions like this, weather it's in regards to rules or regulations or anything else.  The worst that we can do is say yes or no.

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