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Spencer117

HOG tooth necklace opinions?

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I know there are some Marines who work for AMS and probably a few users as well . . .

 

Anyway, being me, I was reading about different military units, branches traditions and things like that when I came up on the marine Corps Scout Snipers. A regular Marine is referred to as a PIG (Professionally Instructed Gunman) and after sniper school they are a HOG (Hunter Of Gunmen). HOGs get a 7.62 caliber bullet necklace (No shell, just the bullet). These were invented to replace the old way of being a Scout Sniper. I was wondering people's opinions on wearing these. 

 

Before judging read this:

 

-I would wear it in respect to these men, isn't that a big part of this sport?

-I plan on joining the military, not sure who yet. Likely the Navy

-I won't call it a HOG's tooth unless explaining it's origins to someone if asked

-These, like many other things, made it into the civilian world to be bought

-To me this would just be something of a reward to myself after a large op. My "Pilot's Wings" in theory. Not just some patch or rank thrown onto my vest or shirt. It's a little reminder of what all went down, like when in the SEALs some platoons take the new guy's trident for a few months until after his first deployment.

 

So, please give an honest opinion. I don't have one yet, but may later on and want to see some opinions before bought. I don't mean to offend ANYONE! One of the primary reasons I am asking is because I don't want any trouble with anybody and I know about the rule of not wearing a military achievement without earning it. Please, forgive me if I'm in the wrong here. I'm 13 and I thought it looked cool, researched it and I realize how difficult it is tho earn this. I'm no one new to military history, and current knowledge in general and I hope someday I will be fighting for my country. Thank you for your time, and sorry if I'm wrong here.

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This sort of thing can be a touchy subject, but ultimately I think it just comes down to you. Most guys shouldn't hound you about it, but there my be the occasional heckler. 

 

My personal thoughts:

1. They may be just "patches" but the stars you get from any AMS event are IMHO the true reward and bragging rights earned by you.

2. As long as this necklace is a personal reward, and is kept to yourself and out of sight, I see no problem.

 

BUT...

 

3. Have you considered something other than the Hog's tooth? I understand its relation to the military and what that adds to its personal value to you, but if it's really about that personal value, could you not just put something else on the necklace? 

 

As an example, there's a great guy (call-sign John Redcorn from C3) that after having earned and adopted his call-sign from his team, began wearing a feather on his helmet. (Partially to celebrate his native american roots.) But that feather relates more to him and how other's perceive him and his accomplishments, not some meaning pulled from others' lives. Seems to be a lot more meaningful and holistic of an item when compared to pulling something from a branch of the military.

 

But ultimately, objects are simply material. The respect you earn from others through your action are far more a reward than anything you can wear.

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The last time I saw a little dude looking very proud in his brand new ACUs, I ended up pulling the flag off my arm and sticking it on his ("Now it's perfect!") - stuff like that makes me happy and glad to be involved in the sport.

 

 

Keep it up young brother.  I doubt anyone will get mad at you for wanting to emulate heroes.  Don't get too into the weeds with it.

 

 

Also, Go Army.   :)

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All I know is you get your hogs tooth from pulling the bullet out of the chamber of the rifle of the sniper that you killed that was hunting you and was intended for you but you got him first.

 

Some people may be offended but thats up to you. Just like anything do it at your own risk. Like with patches if you're gonna sport something remember what you're sporting and respect it. Like if i saw some a guy wearing a ranger tab and ranger scrolls and he was being a douche I would call him out. I don't see that being problem with you considering you're asking and being respectful already.

 

Just remember that a lot of these awards and traditions come from war and it all effects people differently and although we all are playing a game and honoring people. What we all are "simulating" is a very real and life changing thing.

 

I will follow on SPECs coat tails here if its for you keep it for you. Nothing worse than people walking around with their dog tags out. lol..just don't swing it around like you're billy badass and you'll be ok. I will finish with most veterans like myself like to see young guys interested in what we have done. As long as you're respectful you'll be good.

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As a Marine and knowing that in the Marine Corps nothing is free I have to say no. Every Marine works hard to earn everything they are striving for, we don't wear patches for a reason, we don't receive free ribbons for throwing a grenade, and the hogs tooth is earned after training. In my opinion as an 8 yr vet I have to say that if you don't earn it or it wasn't given to you by a friend or family member then please don't wear it and it's no different then wearing a seals trident or force recon scuba bubble or maybe even the rank you didn't earn just don't do it.

 

Also I think either the info you posted or may have received is a little blurred, it is very possible that a Marine in the scout sniper program is called a "pig" but "a regular Marine" is called a Marine, Devil Dog, Jarhead, and Leatherneck at any given time.

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Yep my rule of thumb has and always will be to avoid all insignia and all items considered "exclusive" to some branch, service, or special forces unit.  The MARPAT and AOR1/AOR2 patterns come to mind as examples of the latter for instance.

 

That said, at least the OP has asked and seems aware that it's already a questionable thing to do.

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Don't think anyone would give grief to a 13 year old.  At your age, you're looking up to hero's and having the knowledge of what you are wearing and why would likely honor someone older who would have already earned it.

 

I think it would be a different story if you were 18+.  Like Ian above, I agree that official patches or logos related to historical and existing military units should be frowned upon unless that individual did the work to earn those patches.

 

Many people (like myself) play and enjoy airsoft as a hobby without prior military experience (I'm 34) and as such would never step onto the field wearing anything earned through our various branches - it's disrespectful.

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This is a tricky subject I would so no dont wear a "hogs tooth" neclace, I understand where your coming from but, getting a hogs tooth is someting extreamly hard to get even getting a slot into scout sniper school is an amazing feat comendable within its self. Getting a hogs tooth takes a man that is dedicated, able to eliminate a man at extream distance, able to go into enemy territory gather intel call in artillary, air, and/or navel strikes and make it out without ever being detected. A sniper is one of the most critical points on the battle field high value targest, demoralize the enemy, scout out an area that the main force well enter and asses the threats, spy on the enemy, provde cover for friendlies, call in strikes, and gather vital intell on the enemy that can make or break the battle that could change the tide of the battle. Because of this Snipers are one of the most hated, if not the most hated combatent on the field and face harsh charges if caught from torture, maiming the body causing sever pain to the sniper, yet the sniper understands these risks, Im not trying to be harsh but your just doing it because it looks cool so no i dont think you should wear one a Hogs tooth is someting earned given to the best of the best, given to men/women that understand all the risks the come with the job and still be able to his/her job its not someting just worn because its cool. Just look at the outher post about wearing rank in airsoft, I understand this airsoft is suppost to simulate the military and all but im just saying dont wear it for respect for all the men/women who went through heaven and hell to get the Hogs tooth. The end choice is up to you im just saing think of thoes who actually worked to get it.

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If you wear a 'hog's tooth' necklace and a real Scout-Sniper calls you on it, I'd be prepared  to pocket it the item and apologize for any unintended offence.

This sort of falls under the 'If you didn't earn it, Don't wear it' rule.

 

 

 

 

BTW, the is one 'team' that wears the MACV/SOG patch all the time. I had friends and instructors that served in MACV/OG and I get a little offended by that.

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This is one of those grey areas. Things like these, at least to me, should be met with a little more stipulation than items such as rank or a unit patch. I say this because there is a lot of tradition behind earning something like a HOG's tooth. It requires a person to complete a certain task which is often very difficult and requires a little bit of honor on that person's part. You can track down someone's rank or a unit they were in because that person is given orders that clarify when they were awarded such a thing and everyone knows orders make it official. Generally, someone is given a certificate of completion for something like a HOG's tooth, but that isn't the same as having a set of orders, thus honor is required to wear it.

When I was in Korea my unit held an event known as the "Manchu Mile." A twenty-five mile ruck march held every so often in honor of an eighty-five mile forced march completed by 9th Infantry soldiers during the Boxer Rebellion in 1900. It's a symbol of the unit's history and is very arduous. When you complete it, you're awarded a belt buckle to signify your accomplishment. Usually, the joe can wear it within the batallion, but once he leaves it's no longer authorized for wear. I know guys that wore it anyways, but it depends on how stickler someone wanted to get with uniform regs. I have one of these belt buckles, but I got it by virtue of being a part of the Manchu Regimental Association, not by earning it. Thus, I don't ever wear it.

I also hated wearing my maroon baret in my Airborne unit until I went and earned my wings. Things like this have special meaning and long histories associated with them. My old man still gets pissy about the wide Army wearing black barets, because apparently that used to be a tradition for tankers (eventhough the Rangers wore them for a small period before hand). Same thing goes for the Stetson and spurs that Cav guys earn. They're awards that are not "official" in a sense, but are part of a unit's history or are earned in honor of that unit's lineage. They're hard to get and should be worn only by those that earned them.

The only time I think I would find it acceptable for an item like this to be worn is if it was given to you by someone that earned it. If you are wearing it in honor of that person and their accomplishment. If your intent is to wear it just because you want to honor all of those that did, I think you should find another avenue to do it. It's great that you have aspirations to join the military one day. When  you finally hit the fleet you'll find great pride in earning your Shell Back or Golden Dragon and similar honors and traditions. So, just do your time and you'll earn your own achievments.

TL;DR: You didn't earn it, don't wear it. /hug

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Agreed, I was in the 2nd ACR and the regiment wore black berets, but it seemed that the scouts and those who always were attached to the recon teams wore them better. We wore spurs with Class A and Dress uniforms, and if you had jump wings, you wore your trousers bloused into your Corcorans. Back then, only the Honor Guard wore Stetsons, but anyone that had completed Border tours and Gunnery were allowed.

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It always fascinates me how often that stuff changes. Now a days you'll only see guys blousing their boots in As if they're in an airborne unit. I always thought it looked sharp as hell. I also wasn't too thrilled when I had to give up my maroon baret when I got in country. I get the uniformity shenanigans, but some of those things that you had to earn should just be allowed.

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In short if you didn't earn it don't wear it. Same goes for unit patches. I think it's disrespectful if you never served. If I seen a CIB being wore I'd ask about it. An if you didn't earn it I'll take it. Same thing with a 10th mountain patch or any units I've served with or fought with.

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The rule to remember is,, If you didn't earn it, don't wear it.

When the venue/event operator states that no unauthorized awards, unit insignia, or badges of rank are to be displayed, that's how it goes. If you want to wear something to honor a family member or friend who served in the military, you might want to get a dogtag made with their name, rank, unit, and dates of service on it. If you show up at an event wearing something you should not, someone will mention it and you might get a reputation for being a jerk or worse.

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Rule of thumb:

 

Didn't earn it, don't wear it -- period.

 

Follow that one simple rule will save you a bunch of trouble and truly at the end of the day I and my buddies know what I have earned and accomplished, I don't need any tokens to show that off to the world.

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I understand your feelings man but everyone's got it right I had plans of joining the military since I started finger painting but one birth defect ruined all of that. I show my respect for all veterans when I meet them by shaking their hand and thanking them for their service. The only emblem I ever wore was in honor of my great grandfather who was a 101st screaming eagle and I stopped when I got old enough to realize I hadn't earned it, so I had no right wearing it.

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I'm a sniper and I've had enough experience with people either lying or using vague misinformation to give off that they're snipers or recon marines. Don't be like them. I'm not saying you had the intention of lying about it but you don't rate, in my eyes simply the act of you wearing it is a lie unless you're a sniper. You wouldn't honor an Olympian by walking around with a gold medal around your neck. Telling people its an olympic gold medal "only when they ask about the origin." Don't try to "honor" a sniper by wearing something he wouldn't/couldn't wear until he'd been through hell to earn it. That's just asking for trouble and I think to most marine snipers it would see it as insulting, and aggravating. Its a free country but don't disrespect something like that. Its common sense. And you know its wrong and/or will meet resistance otherwise you wouldnt have to ask on a forum if its OK.

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I'm a sniper and I've had enough experience with people either lying or using vague misinformation to give off that they're snipers or recon marines. Don't be like them. I'm not saying you had the intention of lying about it but you don't rate, in my eyes simply the act of you wearing it is a lie unless you're a sniper. You wouldn't honor an Olympian by walking around with a gold medal around your neck. Telling people its an olympic gold medal "only when they ask about the origin." Don't try to "honor" a sniper by wearing something he wouldn't/couldn't wear until he'd been through hell to earn it. That's just asking for trouble and I think to most marine snipers it would see it as insulting, and aggravating. Its a free country but don't disrespect something like that. Its common sense. And you know its wrong and/or will meet resistance otherwise you wouldnt have to ask on a forum if its OK.

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I'm a sniper and I've had enough experience with people either lying or using vague misinformation to give off that they're snipers or recon marines. Don't be like them. I'm not saying you had the intention of lying about it but you don't rate, in my eyes simply the act of you wearing it is a lie unless you're a sniper. You wouldn't honor an Olympian by walking around with a gold medal around your neck. Telling people its an olympic gold medal "only when they ask about the origin." Don't try to "honor" a sniper by wearing something he wouldn't/couldn't wear until he'd been through hell to earn it. That's just asking for trouble and I think to most marine snipers it would see it as insulting, and aggravating. Its a free country but don't disrespect something like that. Its common sense. And you know its wrong and/or will meet resistance otherwise you wouldnt have to ask on a forum if its OK.

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I'm a sniper and I've had enough experience with people either lying or using vague misinformation to give off that they're snipers or recon marines. Don't be like them. I'm not saying you had the intention of lying about it but you don't rate, in my eyes simply the act of you wearing it is a lie unless you're a sniper. You wouldn't honor an Olympian by walking around with a gold medal around your neck. Telling people its an olympic gold medal "only when they ask about the origin." Don't try to "honor" a sniper by wearing something he wouldn't/couldn't wear until he'd been through hell to earn it. That's just asking for trouble and I think to most marine snipers it would see it as insulting, and aggravating. Its a free country but don't disrespect something like that. Its common sense. And you know its wrong and/or will meet resistance otherwise you wouldnt have to ask on a forum if its OK.

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I'm a sniper and I've had enough experience with people either lying or using vague misinformation to give off that they're snipers or recon marines. Don't be like them. I'm not saying you had the intention of lying about it but you don't rate, in my eyes simply the act of you wearing it is a lie unless you're a sniper. You wouldn't honor an Olympian by walking around with a gold medal around your neck. Telling people its an olympic gold medal "only when they ask about the origin." Don't try to "honor" a sniper by wearing something he wouldn't/couldn't wear until he'd been through hell to earn it. That's just asking for trouble and I think to most marine snipers it would see it as insulting, and aggravating. Its a free country but don't disrespect something like that. Its common sense. And you know its wrong and/or will meet resistance otherwise you wouldnt have to ask on a forum if its OK.

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I have an ISAF patch, and another patch which I believe has to do with Operation Enduring Freedom it's the one with the Eagle over the mountain. That was given to me by a childhood friend who serves in the Army and did a combat tour in Afghanistan.

 

I still would be extremely reluctant to wear them. That after he basically told me that I was like a brother to him and I was one of the few people who kept in constant contact with him and sent him stuff from home and it was like I was there with him.

 

He is currently or at least last I heard, cuz he pretty much fell off the map, with the 25th Infantry Division he's a 15 tango and at this time a medevac crew chief.

 

Needless to say his tour in Afghanistan was extremely rough and I'm honored that he brought me a set of patches home. I get a lump in my throat just looking at them after hearing some of the stories he's told me.

 

Maybe next year broken home I might wear them. Only for Memorial Day and only for my brother. For his sacrifice.

 

I doubt i will ever field those patches, its just too much to think about. it's something that I guess a lot of other people don't understand because they are not directly involved or know somebody who's been through combat and been through all of it. Its not fun.

 

Warriors have their own culture and those of us who are not a part of it do not understand it and should not try to represent any aspect of that culture.

 

Represent your patriotism for your country and you respect for service personnel. you can do that with a lot of morale patches and good old American flag.

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