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Joe

Ok, so what happened?

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When I and the rest of D9 decided to join CDF, we did so with the thoughts of still being CoST loyal as they have been until ORY2. The whole separate faction idea came later and we figured several people on CoST and UFS would be butthurt over the idea, they were, and apparently still are. I like what Grendel said about this being set as a fictional civil war within the US where a civilian militia would be a more than formidable force. I also like what Sisu said about the no gear and raiding 'dead' for ammo and other supplies. Weather you like to admit it or not, the CDF in this particular story line, IS very realistic. That being said, they usually do side with one of the warring factions. People that have a problem with supposed 'flip flopping', be a true MilSimer and pull 360* sucurity at all times like you should be anyway, have good coms and stay in the loop of what's going on.

 

All that being said, my team and myself included feel that CoST is where we belong. I for one would be fine with CDF staying the same as they were at this OP. I'm up for the added challenge element of a 3rd faction....are you?

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So a civilian force would be a challenge to a force with attack helo's and an unlimited supply of ammo and supply trucks? Yeah, most of us keep apache's and tomahawk tactical's in the garage. CDF being as well equipped as the two main factions is laughable. The CDF did work this weekend, but lets not be unrealistic in this imaginary world we play in.

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There are pros and cons to all it really comes down to is at the end of the day did everyone have as much fun as they were able? if you can answer that with a yes then the mission was accomplished.

 

The scenario is a morphing thing that is very fluid and ever changing. AMS if I may be so bold to speak has a vision of where this whole perpetual war is to go. that is eventually there is a year round planning by each side to include back door deals, hidden alliances, back stabbings and all around sneak fest. Along with a regular grunt it our fight between 2, 3 or 4 forces all going for their own political wants.... you fight on the side you want and plan accordingly if you want to be a rifleman then that is what you can do or you can play a roll as whatever.

 

I only scratch the surface as to what this will look like as i said it is ever changing... I find it funny that some love it, some hate, it some don't care, some want it their way, and some don't understand why what is happening is... I could go on and on as can you...

 

I am the UFS commander and I was supposed to know what is going on and I barely held on to what I thought was going on...LOL This not the fault of anyone... but due to the nature of the teams and decisions made by small unit leaders on the ground that have to be made and adjusted to and how things just seemed to unfold from the Admins to the players .. there where objectives in the beginning and throughout the game that we known and unknown. sometimes you didn't know until minutes before execution... Hell twice I was given intel on where to go only to get there and the location was wrong. It just prove that the intell you receive is no good once it it given..LOL This is the fun of milsim over come, adjust and do the best you can.. you get to play a role that changes as you play it... you get to play with people across the country that display great sportsmanship, teamwork, and honor. I say this to all side COST, UFS and CDF.

 

I will not belabor the thoughts everyone has on the make of of the third faction/organization/militia or whether it should be set up a certain way.. I think this will change at every event and depends on the folks who are in the role on whether it is good or bad helpful or hurts the game play.. this will come down to the players understanding the role and the expectation from AMS..

 

Most of the players don't know, don't care or don't understand all that is going on during the game and those that do barely get enough information to really know what is happening at a particular time and that is changing almost as fast as is learned.

 

One of many ways I have thought to set this up and by no means the only .. if you want a force such as CDF make them choose a side (this can change based on the Commanders political leanings for a particular event LOL). Tailor the numbers to the side the CDF commander picks. for example if CDF is on UFS side the total number would be roughly the same as the Cost total number. They are an independent force that is tied to the side assigned but runs on its own more or less with communications maintained with the joint unit... this would lessen the flip flopping or Friendly fire cases... and give the unit some autonomy. if the forces fight well together could be effective if they don't well it could be ugly.... LOL or run independent but on the same side each a smaller force but together equal the opposing force numbers.. have separate FOBs and all even missions but not shoot each other.. they could negotiate joint missions to benefit each need. would necessitate a liaison.. 

 

All in all this was a very good game one of the better ones I have had the pleasure of playing in! the gamesmanship, Honor, Sportsmanship and all around game play were great. Where there issues yep always is.. where there hit shrugging yep always is, where there short tempers yep always is, where there unhappy campers who just hated everything going on yep always is. this cant be helped unfortunately and sometimes sadly these are the loudest voices. 

 

I had a blast and I saw way to many high fives and thumbs up to believe I was the only one... It is was great to see all of you and look forward to slinging BBs at the next event..

 

Top

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Top. I could not have said that better myself. In the end this is our game Its about us having fun. And if you did not have any fun at all well maybe you should find out why. If the answer is well we were underdoged and the other Team cheated all day. Then you really need to take a step back and look at the whole situation. Because I assure you that is a false statement. But instead of pointing fingers you should adapt and overcome. And if you cannot do that then maybe milsim is not for you. And there is nothing wrong with that.

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Here is the thing. my whole goal and intention of being cdf commander was to be an x factor of the game at a facility like this. you have damn near even number on cost and ufs if i was to choose a legit allaince with either side the other side would have been steamed rolled. My intent was to let Cost and UFS fight it out through out the city. I allowed UFS safe Passage through 2 of my roads to fight cost per my non agression pact with UFS. I tried multiple times to Get with COST command to do the same but that failed. so i can tell you all that WE didnt side with either side but set up non agressison pacts ufs didnt cross into my buildings. if you look at Real world scenrios then you will know there is always a cdf/milita presence i saw this first hand after relieving marines in Haditha, and everyone knows how that went down. people what im saying is dont be mad because we played the game. dont be made because there was a thrid faction. yeah my cdf was well equipped. we took the time and effort into our planning. im not saying there needs to be a cdf at everygame. myself ive always fought cost side. but for this story line to evolve and grow you need to keep an x factor. ufs vs cost, ufs vs cost, ufs vs cost. keep the same stuff with the same players people will loose intrest. why not have a 3rd faction. why not have UFS fight CDF at an op, why not have COST fight CDF  at an op. it give you.. the player a different feel of the story line, exp new leadership, and a different exp all together. CDF this year was comprised of exp teams for a reason. to make it an even fight for all sides. everytime CDF is in the story line i see tons of bitching. Its frustrating to me to see so many people claim to be milsim and go to milsim ops that would symbolize real world i.e 2 Formible armies going head way at each other and a local milita prepared to fight ot keep their homes. 

COST and UFS-

from my eyes you both did a damn fine job all weekend. dont let the words of a few players that had bad exprience ruin that or let it get to you. i for one enjoyed the non agression pact i put in place. granted they went to shit at the end of the day. I know i can keep my head held high because whether or not its known we put in serious work as a third faction. it was nice to see the commrodirie i had between the teams under my command. i was even more impressed with the groups of players which were mixed with CDF, COST, UFS all joking and talking during the breaks. so to see so much crap about a third faction coming to life just tells me i did a damn fine job at rustling some feathers. and i did what i set out to do. Go the whole weekend with out loosing my accumalted points, and let ufs cost fight in the city while holding no allegiance to either one. 

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When I and the rest of D9 decided to join CDF, we did so with the thoughts of still being CoST loyal as they have been until ORY2. The whole separate faction idea came later and we figured several people on CoST and UFS would be butthurt over the idea, they were, and apparently still are. I like what Grendel said about this being set as a fictional civil war within the US where a civilian militia would be a more than formidable force. I also like what Sisu said about the no gear and raiding 'dead' for ammo and other supplies. Weather you like to admit it or not, the CDF in this particular story line, IS very realistic. That being said, they usually do side with one of the warring factions. People that have a problem with supposed 'flip flopping', be a true MilSimer and pull 360* sucurity at all times like you should be anyway, have good coms and stay in the loop of what's going on.

 

All that being said, my team and myself included feel that CoST is where we belong. I for one would be fine with CDF staying the same as they were at this OP. I'm up for the added challenge element of a 3rd faction....are you?

tip of hat to you man ;)

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Here is the thing. my whole goal and intention of being cdf commander was to be an x factor of the game at a facility like this. you have damn near even number on cost and ufs if i was to choose a legit allaince with either side the other side would have been steamed rolled. My intent was to let Cost and UFS fight it out through out the city. I allowed UFS safe Passage through 2 of my roads to fight cost per my non agression pact with UFS. I tried multiple times to Get with COST command to do the same but that failed. so i can tell you all that WE didnt side with either side but set up non agressison pacts ufs didnt cross into my buildings. if you look at Real world scenrios then you will know there is always a cdf/milita presence i saw this first hand after relieving marines in Haditha, and everyone knows how that went down. people what im saying is dont be mad because we played the game. dont be made because there was a thrid faction. yeah my cdf was well equipped. we took the time and effort into our planning. im not saying there needs to be a cdf at everygame. myself ive always fought cost side. but for this story line to evolve and grow you need to keep an x factor. ufs vs cost, ufs vs cost, ufs vs cost. keep the same stuff with the same players people will loose intrest. why not have a 3rd faction. why not have UFS fight CDF at an op, why not have COST fight CDF  at an op. it give you.. the player a different feel of the story line, exp new leadership, and a different exp all together. CDF this year was comprised of exp teams for a reason. to make it an even fight for all sides. everytime CDF is in the story line i see tons of bitching. Its frustrating to me to see so many people claim to be milsim and go to milsim ops that would symbolize real world i.e 2 Formible armies going head way at each other and a local milita prepared to fight ot keep their homes. 

COST and UFS-

from my eyes you both did a damn fine job all weekend. dont let the words of a few players that had bad exprience ruin that or let it get to you. i for one enjoyed the non agression pact i put in place. granted they went to shit at the end of the day. I know i can keep my head held high because whether or not its known we put in serious work as a third faction. it was nice to see the commrodirie i had between the teams under my command. i was even more impressed with the groups of players which were mixed with CDF, COST, UFS all joking and talking during the breaks. so to see so much crap about a third faction coming to life just tells me i did a damn fine job at rustling some feathers. and i did what i set out to do. Go the whole weekend with out loosing my accumalted points, and let ufs cost fight in the city while holding no allegiance to either one. 

 

 

So, maybe my overexagerrated scenario didn't make the right point because, apparently, there are people here who might feel as though I am complaining about the CDF and the job they did. Oh, so on the contrary! I spent most of Saturday in and around the CDF, negotiating non agression pacts, negotiating for a bomb diffusal, checking my 6 when I was given a free pass through their AO, etc. I had a blast! I think that the amount of restraint that CDF used in many situations was phenomenal. I think that the CDf does have it's place in these milsim's, my only concern is that we keep a close eye on what it morphs into. RYII was my favorite Op to date. No matter what scenarios I was a part of or an audience to this weekend, I enjoyed all of it. None of it was bad for me, only some more challenging than others. 

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Danarchy,

 

My gopro was running when we searched Bo at the train yard.  I have it all captured on video of Bo running and me tackling him... Good stuff will get up soon

 

I'm looking forward to seeing your tackle in first person view! I watched Frostbite's video and (1) BigSilva was running as fast as I remembered,and he must have had some past experience running so fast with handcuffs on, and (2) it sure seemed much, much longer when he were chasing him before he went down.

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Danarchey, your welcom ;) i captured bo and put him in zip ties, and becuase we had the non agression pact i didnt try to take him although im pretty sure you had more guys there than i did at the train station.. it was funny as hell watching bo zip tied and running his ass off.

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So, I didn't really read a whole lot of the long posts above me. Sorry in advance.

 

Anyway, let me rephrase what I said earlier:

No one has anything against CDF players. We just think AMS events would be better as a strictly CoST vs UFS game.
As said before, CDF was originally meant as a roleplaying force to make the AO feel more 'real' and provide interesting dynamics.
What happened was it became an 'elite' team of people who flip flopped sides or did whatever they hell they felt like doing.

The UFS/CoST alliance was a theatrical setup to get our point across to AMS that we want CDF changed. We had been talking to AMS about this behind the scenes for a while.

CDF doesn't need to be CDF. It just needs to be C (Civilians).

I am trying to work with AMS to put forth the idea of turning CDF into a group of roleplayers who would come for free but would be required to take a roleplaying/whatever class the day before the event to make sure they played the part as real people and not airsofters. (AKA, most people are a bit more afraid of assault rifles and men busting in through their homes than airsofters like to act).
These civilians would not be a militant group, but would have their own firearms, but would however not have the same level of equipment/ammo that military groups have.
Civilians would also give out new objectives worth points depending on certain triggers. Given Civilian Joe Bob a poptart and he'll tell you about a secret ammo cache. Give Civilian Mary Sue some shampoo and she'll help you find the commander of the opposite team. Make friends with the governor and maybe he'll hide a small team of your guys in a caravan and move them behind enemy lines. ETC.
On the flip side, take Billy Bob's home as a bunker without talking to him respectfully and you may find him less likely to help you in the future.
Killing civilians would also count against a team's score unless ROE was followed (civilians would be mini admins in the fact they would keep track of this stuff).

Anyway, like I said. I'm really trying to work with AMS to change up the whole CDF thing but the first step was getting AMS to notice we didn't like it how it was.

We all apologize if it was an odd or unpleasurable moment to players during the game ( and the reset ) but we felt it was necessary to make change.

Side Note: Those upset about resets. It's a game and one that has to be played fair. Resets are always going to be a thing. Players talk about not being 'milsim' and so on but I still see plenty of people not following orders, walking off to do their own thing, or whatever. Also, most players cannot play for 3-4 hours straight, let alone a full day. Breaks are needed and will never go away. Sorry. :P

EDIT: Sorry for the poor structure. Busy. Will possibly attempt to fix later if I remember.

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My .02 on the CDF thing.

As the game grows this could allow different events to be tailored to fight different factions such as; broken home Cost VS UFS.

ESR 19 CDF VS UFS

Rebel Yell. CDF VS Everyone

Etc

Etc

Etc

 

In my opinion this could open the game up to different factions at different times and at different places.

 

I had a great time at this event and was exhausted. I was so tired that as we made a final push on the apartment I had no idea that I was being shot in the leg by a pistol from a basement window. Yes, I heard it, yes I felt it, but it didn't click until I heard the guy beside me call his hit. I then realized that I must have been shot about 5 times lol. Yea I did call my hit finally.

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My account of UFS/CoST ceasefire.   After the ceasefire was called and the CDF advance on the eastern flank was halted myself and several other UFS troops were able to link up with CoST units outside of building 2402. Most of the UFS troops including myself took some hits pushing across the courtyard to the building and were down , CoST forces inside the north end of the building pulled us out of fire and got us back in the fight. Together we assualted and cleared the southern end of the building where a single rifleman/dmr had cutoff much of the UFS effort to advance from that position. Shortly after I was able to link up with one other member of my squad in city hall. From the top floor I saw the same CoST trooper who pulled me out of fire crossing the field to the south of end of city hall carrying INTEL. As I arrived on the field satuday squad 3-1 was informed by TOP that our main objective was to find and capture INTEL cases located on the field. I made a snap decision ,knowing the ceasefire would not last, I ran down from the top floor and got the CoST troopers attention. As he knew we were at a ceasefire and had just saved my ass he approached without hesitation. I simply put my hand on his shoulder and said " i know were peaceable now but i can't let you leave with that" and raised my rifle in to his leg. I asked him nicely to follow me towards the school house where I took control of the INTEL and released him. (without thinking i told him to just throw his deadrag on so my guys wouldn't shot him) This presumabley led to the UFS/CoST standoff outside of our FOB when CoST came asking for their property. If this led to the breakdown of the ceasefire and troops on both sides getting massacred I'm sorry but the INTEL was my mission!  I personally liked that it led to some really unexpected or scripted stuff like the standoff and negotiation !!   IF CoST or even my fellow UFS disagree with my decision , next time i'll pause the game and you guys can make the decision for me, NOT!!!  I had a blast at my first AMS and will definitely be back for more!

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OK boys and girls, I am in the process of a full AAR but feel it necesary to chime in on the CDF as a faction issue.  What I have been reading is quite literally nothing more than whining from those that are not happy CDF put up a hell of a fight.  Misift 1 and I are extremely proud of our CDF and what they were able to accomplish this OP.  To those saying civilians have no business being organized like the CDF at RYII, I can do nothing but chuckle.  If this were real world and two "armies" rolled into a town that is not politically aligned with either army and said armies proceede to destroy the town and kill civilians, you better believe the civilians are going to band together an fight.  The most glaring thing you are forgetting is where this scenario is taking place, here at home in the US.  The civilian population is made up of a large number of combat veterans, prior LE, etc.  Not only that, but we are extremely well armed/equipped.  I know of mulitiple people who have more firearms, ammo, and assorted equipment than several infantry troops combined.  Obviously civilians don't have tanks and what not, but it is HIGHLY unlikely  tanks and non-precsion bombing would be utilized on US soil. 

 

If you want the additional numbers CDF can provied your faction, then negotiate with them, work with them; just as you would in the real world.  A CDF such as we had at RY can provide a change of pace for those returning to AMS events.  Now, not every AMS event warrants a CDF presence, such as Faded Giant.  The CDF as it was at RYII plays a piviital role in the AME timeline.  I would be very disappointed to see the CDF's role reduced or redacted.

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Right, well and that's just it....
Based on the story line and the fact that CoST and UFS destroyed the city last year, and that CDF had to rebuild from scratch... That in my mind would absolutely warrant a militant force in the city... You think Grandma Sally that survived the conflict in her town last year wouldn't have an AK in the cookie jar?
C'mon... 

That being said, I think having a designated role playing persons would be an incredible addition to the game. But you're not going to get someone to pay $125 or more to not shoot. I'm sure role players can be found, just like the amazing admins that AMS has, it just takes time to find those that would be dedicated enough to do it. :)

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CDF this Cdf that role play this role play that. I disagree. IM glad there was three factions at this game. So many of you want just cost vs ufs. It would get boring. With the same leadership. Same tactics. And same players. I for one am glad i took cdf as a serious force and changed the status quo. My inbox is open.

Everyone has thier opinion on how things shpuld be run. But ams has the final say and regardless of what the decide they will be getting my money for future ops and i may even throw my hat in the ring for anotjer co poistion in the future. All thr negitivity needs to stop.

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I had no problem identifying my fellow CDF guys from the other two groups even at a distance.  I thought the black tops made up pretty distinct.  Hell, as a complete unit our top color was more uniform than either CoST or UFS, who used several varieties of colors and camos.

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Yeah the Pmc look was distinctive until the tops came off and people had black t shirts under their tops from other factions.Hell, there's even a pic of a guy with tan top, kit, and helmet with green pants. Still had a great time.

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Well, this was my and my son's first AMS event and even with some turmoil, we had a blast. I got into it with my Plt Leader after the CO told us one thing and he said another....but we made up and my reaction was what caused it.

I was frustrated with holding a building all day, but even though this is a game, I do have to respect the command element.

On the subject of CDF....Afghanistan( past few decades), Pakistan, Iraq....the list goes on to flip-flops etc. I believe the map for the role play is the USA. We will all have our POVs.

I made mistakes, lots of them. I was on CoST...Seemed like Spartan (CDF) was there to correct me a couple of times....at least I think I heard you yelling my name and an order(game rules)....:)

Then I finally got to charge across the road at the end of the game, take out two CDF and use one of my new-never-used grenades.....and Spartan shot me....again.

I digress....had a lot of fun and obviously need to do more preparation next time. Good to meet new players from around the country and see so many that I see at Stockyards as well!

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OK boys and girls, I am in the process of a full AAR but feel it necesary to chime in on the CDF as a faction issue.  What I have been reading is quite literally nothing more than whining from those that are not happy CDF put up a hell of a fight.  Misift 1 and I are extremely proud of our CDF and what they were able to accomplish this OP.  To those saying civilians have no business being organized like the CDF at RYII, I can do nothing but chuckle.  If this were real world and two "armies" rolled into a town that is not politically aligned with either army and said armies proceede to destroy the town and kill civilians, you better believe the civilians are going to band together an fight.  The most glaring thing you are forgetting is where this scenario is taking place, here at home in the US.  The civilian population is made up of a large number of combat veterans, prior LE, etc.  Not only that, but we are extremely well armed/equipped.  I know of mulitiple people who have more firearms, ammo, and assorted equipment than several infantry troops combined.  Obviously civilians don't have tanks and what not, but it is HIGHLY unlikely  tanks and non-precsion bombing would be utilized on US soil. 

 

If you want the additional numbers CDF can provied your faction, then negotiate with them, work with them; just as you would in the real world.  A CDF such as we had at RY can provide a change of pace for those returning to AMS events.  Now, not every AMS event warrants a CDF presence, such as Faded Giant.  The CDF as it was at RYII plays a piviital role in the AME timeline.  I would be very disappointed to see the CDF's role reduced or redacted.

 

 

 

 

So, there are hordes of America's combat hardened elite force veterans who are somehow stockpiling enough weaponry to field a small army while also secretly meeting regularly for regular training because they are disgruntled with government of a country that they devoted a life of service to and have killed and watched their comrades die to protect? And they're recruiting the masses? And they are so successful at it that they truly are a threat to the United States military and all of its resources? But the government has no intel on them or their strengths and weaknesses? And the government has no way of quickly and cleanly disposing of them? How have we not seen this blasted on the news 24/7? What a tense state out fragile nation is in! Damn liberal media, keeping all the important stuff hidden.

 

 

That sounds like a pretty good Tom Clancy platform.

 

 

I do like CDF at AMS events, though. I just refuse to try to sell it as an accurate representation of a valid threat to 2 organized, funded and trained military forces. It is a chaotic , dangerous hindrance. But that is what it is, a valid, very dangerous, chaotic hindrance.

 

So

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